Industry News

Ramsey Solutions Offering Free Financial Peace U. to Veterans

In recognition of Veterans Day (11/11), Ramsey Solutions is offering its Financial Peace University to 10,000 veterans at no cost. Additionally, Ramsey Solutions is including three months of premium access to the EveryDollar budgeting app. And veterans who sign up for FPU will have the invaluable opportunity to participate in group coaching calls with Ramsey Solutions’ team of dedicated financial coaches. Theim company says, “The numbers don’t lie.  America’s military heroes are struggling with money. A recent survey conducted by Wounded Warrior Project finds six in 10 veterans did not have enough money to make ends meet at some point in the past year. The survey also finds the rising cost of goods is the top-rated source of financial strain.” Dave Ramsey comments, “Veterans who’ve selflessly served to protect our freedom deserve to feel freedom for themselves and their families. It’s not just about financial education; it’s about transformation. Winning with money takes sacrifice, perseverance and determination — qualities veterans know all about. We’ll give them the tools, and they’ll get it done.”

Industry News

John Fredericks Media Network Launches on WENO-AM, Nashville

The John Fredericks Media Network is acquiring WENO-AM, Nashville from Broady Media Group. JFMN is operating the station under an LMA as the deal goes through the FCC approval process. JFMN rebrands the station “News/Talk AM 760 The Flame.” This addition to the JFMN portfolio comes on the heels of its pending acquisition of WCNS-AM, Latrobe and WXJX-AM, Apollo in Pennsylvania. Johnim Fredericks says, “As our stations in Philadelphia have thrived and shown stunning growth, we thought it was critical to bookend the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania with Pittsburgh, giving us robust reach in both dense population centers. We offer listeners in Pittsburgh’s Westmoreland County and now Nashville, Tennessee an exciting news/talk alternative that breaths oxygen into a stale and boring ring of warmed-over RINO syndicated hosts on the conservative news/talk syndication circuit. Our Nashville acquisition gives us a base of operations in the Mid-South as we expand along the spine of the Atlantic Coast. Nashville is a high-growth city and an important cultural center of our movement. We will be competing there with the biggest talk station conglomerates in the nation, including Cumulus and iHeart. We will offer Nashville listeners a dynamic alternative choice.

Industry Views

Pending Business: Fall Back

By Steve Lapa
Lapcom Communications Corp
President

imWe all need to learn how to fall back. This is not about daylight saving, retreating, or backpedaling. This is about learning from the most valuable brand in tech, the oracle, and the best practices all of us in sales and management must learn to apply.

Let us start with Apple. Demand for the iPhone 15 is not lighting the tech world on fire as slow sales do not even come close to measuring up to the numbers delivered by its predecessors like the iPhone 13 when sales jumped 47% two years ago. What happened to all those Apple fanatics who would line up outside Apple stores or flood the Internet with orders ready to buy the next iPhone?

The must-have Apple loyalists were slowed down by the glitches in the iPhone 15 as we have come to expect design perfection. And why not, when you have nearly 1.5 billion users worldwide and sell nearly 100 million iPhones in the first two quarters of this year? Perfection expectations go hand-in-hand with momentum, innovation, and sales. Perhaps the challenge after 16 years of “new and improved” was too much. Tech is not Tide and Apple is not Procter and Gamble.

What are the lessons we can learn from this lower sales cycle?

— Never assume an unqualified welcome sign from your core customers. We earn the welcome sign every day. Fix the problem faster.

— Always deliver on the promise of new and improved.

— Better to delay than disappoint.

Famed Wall Street guru Warren Buffett recently dealt with losses in several of his holdings by being transparent with his stockholders about the challenges at several of his companies and navigating an unfriendly stock market. This is the same Warren Buffett who supported the Cap Cities minnow (remember that company?) swallowing the ABC Radio whale and still is a stakeholder in media.

The 93-year Oracle of Omaha is nimble enough to shift strategies and adjust his investments to maximize results for his stakeholders.

The Buffett takeaways?

— When performance is not up to expectations, adjust the plan.

— Age can be an asset when experience counts.

— When you are in hole, stop digging.

How many traditional packages and sales promotions have you counted on as sure-fire sellers that unexpectedly failed? What does your fallback plan look like?

Steve Lapa is the president of Lapcom Communications Corp. based in Palm Beach Gardens, FL. Lapcom is a media sales, marketing, and development consultancy. Contact Steve Lapa via email at: Steve@Lapcomventures.com.

Industry Views

Monday Memo: Radio/TV Synergies

im“If you think radio has problems,” consultant Holland Cooke says, “Netflix et al are to television stations what Pandora et al are to music stations. So local news is TV stations’ silver bullet. And – like radio – their need to promote off-air exceeds their promotion budget.” In this week’s column, he outlines tactics for “partnering with a fellow broadcaster who’s also challenged.” Read his column here.

Industry News

Mike Gallagher Emcees JCN Gala

im

Salem Radio Network nationally syndicated talk host Mike Gallagher (left) is pictured above with entertainer Lee Greenwood (right) at Saturday’s Job Creators Network black-tie gala in Palm Beach that honored JCN founder Bernie Marcus. Gallagher served as emcee for the event that was attended by Georgia Governor Brian Kemp, former U.S. House Speaker Newt Gingrich, actor Gary Sinese, Arizona Governor Doug Ducey, publisher Steve Forbes and FOX News Channel personality Laura Ingraham. Greenwood performed his trademark song, “God Bless the USA.”

Industry News

Thrill of Possibility Summit Takes Place in Nashville

im

The Black Effect Podcast Network’s Thrill of Possibility Summit presented by Nissan took place over the weekend at the National Museum of African American Music in Nashville. The event welcomed 50 HBCU students from across the country to participate in a STEAM (Science, Tech, Engineering and Math) industry mentorship event featuring professional development and personal success panels, 1:1 career mentorship sessions, informative iHeartMedia and Nissan internship discussions and networking opportunities with industry leaders and notable HBCU alumni. Pictured above is The Black Effect Podcast Network founder Charlamagne Tha God (left) and president of production & creative development Dollie S. Bishop (right). Photo: The Tyler Twins for iHeartMedia

Industry News

Top News/Talk Media Stories Over the Weekend

Israel’s fight against Hamas, pleas for restraint in the wake of civilian deaths, and the protests taking place in the U.S.; former President Donald Trump’s legal battles; the 2024 presidential race; Tuesday’s elections; the Russia-Ukraine war; the mass shooting in Cincinnati; and the debate over daylight saving time were some of the most-talked-about stories in news/talk media over the weekend, according to ongoing research from TALKERS magazine.

Industry Views

Monday Memo: TV Synergies

By Holland Cooke
Consultant

imI am always impressed when I see-and-hear radio and TV stations swapping product.

— The most obvious asset is weather. Many radio stations’ forecasts are voiced by local television meteorologists, often gratis because their boss assigned them to, as part of an information alliance. So, the radio station’s weather cred’ stands on the broad shoulders of the weather brand the TV station promotes so relentlessly.

— For some news/talk stations, simulcasting a television newscast is the only way they can air local news in the afternoon. Turn lemons into lemonade. Radio people who love to hate TV audio under-estimate how loyal viewers are; and how conspicuous and convenient this can make the radio station.

— Especially if the deal includes promos – on both stations – voiced by trusted local TV anchors, offering that “If you can’t be home in time to SEE us, you can HEAR us…”

— In every market where we have executed this strategy, the TV talent has remarked about how many compliments they get for being on radio.

— Deal point: During simulcast newscasts, the TV station supers “Heard live on WXXX 8:50 AM.”

How’s THIS for resourceful?  

— A radio station’s afternoon drive newscast consists of a 60-second live shot (or prerecorded live-on-tape) from a local TV newsroom, voiced by the TV anchor who ticks-off “the stories we’re following” that will be seen on evening newscasts.

— The radio station wraps it into a four-minute package, including:

— that live headline package, at the end of which

— the TV anchor hands off to radio’s traffic reporter, then…

— the traffic reporter teases weather into a radio spot, and…

— after the commercial, the weather comes on.

— And here’s the kicker…that live shot from the TV newsroom is a commercial for the TV station! To the listener’s ear, it’s a free newscast from a credible, branded source. Possibly a trade for TV time to advertise the radio station?

im

Another win-win synergy: Reciprocal excerpting, with attribution 

Translation: Each station gives blanket permission for the other to grab, from the air, whatever it wants, crediting the originating partner.

— There will be times when someone from the radio station is on-scene; or when radio scores a newsworthy interview that TV can use the audio of. More often, thinner-staffed radio will use TV sound more than vice-versa.

— When I programmed WTOP, Washington, WUSA9 let us help ourselves to their newscast audio (“And the mayor told Channel 9…”). Each day, our desk and theirs compared assignments, and we recorded every WUSA newscast.

— True story: The news director from NBC4 came to my office and said, “You can use OUR sound, and you don’t even have to say ‘Channel 4!’ Just STOP saying ‘Channel 9.’”

— It was a flattering offer, but we remained loyal to WUSA, the once-upon-a-time WTOP-TV. Decades later we were still getting mail addressed to “WTOP-TV.” And both stations being CBS affiliates contributed to the lingering impression that we were siblings, so the confusion was actually useful. Does your radio station have a long-lost TV brother? 

Radio takes TV where it otherwise can’t go: in-car

Note how aggressively TV stations are programming their apps and websites. They want to be a news brand, not just a news station.

— A smart TV station should want to give radio a ROSR (Reporter On-Scene Report) during the day (when radio audience is high and TV audience is low), because doing so serves to promote the upcoming evening TV newscast.

— WARNING, based on experience: This can be a tough sell to over-protective TV news directors, who may fret that by going-live on radio they’re alerting other TV stations to the story. Stinkin’ thinkin.’ Other TV stations could show up anyway, and they wouldn’t be as-well-known for covering the story as the TV station that’s also already reporting it on radio.

Local TV news is a hungry critter…

…with a limited budget. Which is why some TV stations toss-live to their radio partner’s host: “Gene, what are your callers saying about the congressman’s abrupt resignation?” Arrangements like this were commonplace even decades ago, when TV had to equip the radio studio with equipment more elaborate than modern day video chat requires.

The calculus is simple

Radio + TV > Radio – TV or TV – Radio

(Radio PLUS television is greater-than Radio MINUS television or television MINUS Radio.)

Even if you’re a music station that doesn’t do much news at all, these opportunities are worth exploring. At least trade spots, because neither station can afford to promote as much as it should.

Holland Cooke (HollandCooke.com) is a consultant working at the intersection of broadcasting and the Internet. He is the author of “Close Like Crazy: Local Direct Leads, Pitches & Specs That Earned the Benjamins” and “Confidential: Negotiation Checklist for Weekend Talk Radio.” Follow HC on Twitter @HollandCooke

Industry News

Sandy Maxx Hosts New Show on WTMJ, Milwaukee

WTMJ, Milwaukee air personality Sandy Maxx is hosting a new evening program on the Good Karma Brands station that airs nightly at 6:00 pm called “What’s On Tap?” Maxx says, “I’m pleased toim announce that I will be back on the air with my new show called ‘What’s On Tap?’ This hourlong show is set to air on most weeknights at 6: 00 pm barring conflicts with Bucks & Brewers games, featuring culture and creativity in Wisconsin and around the world.” The show launched last night and featured content from Maxx’s recent trip to England in which she interviewed Sue Harvey of The Beatles landmark Strawberry Field in Liverpool as well as an audio tour of the Beatles-themed Airbnb in Green Bay. Maxx most recently co-hosted the station’s late morning show with host Steve Scaffidi.

Industry News

THE BIG 88 to become New York and New Jersey’s Largest College Radio Station on November 8

imWRHU-FM, Hempstead, New York chief engineer Andy Gladding played a role in organizing the November 8 event when eight university and high school owned-and-operated stations broadcasting in the 88.1-88.9 segment of the FM band in the number one media market in the country join together to celebrate their love of college radio. Starting at 12:00 noon ET, “The Big 88” will become New York and New Jersey’s largest college radio station, covering an FM broadcast footprint of over 120 miles. In a story written for TALKERS magazine, Gladding says that despite the rash of American colleges selling their radio properties, the New York market has a vibrant college radio community. He says college radio stations have a special value. “I have spent 20 years working as a student volunteer and administrator at WRHU, ‘Radio Hofstra University,’ and have seen first-hand how college radio contributes to the growth and success of students looking to pursue a career in radio, television and digital media. Students and community volunteers who participate at college radio stations find themselves engaged in a diverse community of voices, opinions and music. While their approach and interests may be different, their practice at the college radio station unites them with one unified goal: to serve the listening audience by creating imaginative and alternative audio programming using the university’s FM transmission facility as their channel to the world. Read Gladding’s entire story here.

Industry News

Radio Hall of Fame Inducts Class of 2023

im

The Radio Hall of Fame inducted its 2023 class of honorees last night (11/2) at the InterContinental New York Barclay Hotel in New York City. Pictured above are the inductees (from l-r): Gerry House, Shadoe Stevens, Charles Warfield, Deborah Parenti, Nina Totenberg, John DeBella, Pat St. John, and Bob Rivers.

Industry News

“America Tonight” Now Syndicated by Talk Media Network

The long-running nightly news and interview-driven program “America Tonight with Kate Delaney” is now being syndicated by Talk Media Network and the Wegener show feed continues to be delivered 12:00 midnight to 2:00 am ET. Talk Media Network founder and CEO Josh Leng says, “Kate is anim award-winning and barrier-breaking broadcast professional who has built her brand and ‘America Tonight’ show to be trusted and respected. Kate’s been a dependable weeknight talk host for 15 years. Her affiliates know her as a super-serving talent who goes the extra mile for them. Listeners know ‘America Tonight with Kate Delaney’ as an entertaining show to stay ‘in the know.’” Delaney adds, “I look forward to expanding and growing the show with the talented professionals at TMN. I’m passionate about talk radio and its ability to bring people together to inform, entertain and surprise listeners.” Stations interested in the program can reach out to Willis Damalt.

Industry News

WFDF, Detroit Begins Simulcast on HD Signal

Detroit news/talk outlet WFDF-AM adds an FM HD signal to its broadcast via Audacy’s WOMC-HD2 at 104.3 FM. The Adell Media-owned station recently flipped from urban talk (with a very brief stint as sports talk in between) to conservative news/talk and now positions itself as “910 AM Superstation –im Detroit’s News/Talk Radio Station.” The station features local host Justin Barclay in morning drive with Premiere Networks syndicated shows including “The Glenn Beck Program,” “The Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Show,” “The Sean Hannity Show,” “The Jesse Kelly Show,” Key Networks’ “The Bill O’Reilly Show” and Red Apple Media’s “The Other Side of Midnight with Frank Morano.” The station is promoting itself with a heavy media schedule on iHeartMedia’s adult contemporary WNIC-FM, Detroit voiced by Sean Hannity. Adell Media CEO Kevin Adell says, “910 AM Superstation is living up to its name. The audience growth we’ve seen since launching our conservative news/talk lineup in September has been exponential, and we’re looking forward to reaching even more listeners on 104.3 HD2.”

Industry News

Top News/Talk Media Stories for Week of Oct. 30 – Nov. 3

Israel’s ongoing bombardment of Gaza in its war with Hamas was the most-talked-about story in news/talk media this week, landing atop the Talkers TenTM. At #2 this week was the campus protests over Israel’s reaction to the Hamas attacks and the rise in anti-Semitism around the world, followed by the legal battles facing former President Donald Trump at #3. The Talkers TenTM is a weekly chart of the top stories and people discussed in news/talk media during the week and is the result of ongoing research from TALKERS magazine. It is published every Friday at Talkers.com. See this week’s complete chart here.

Features

THE BIG 88 to become New York and New Jersey’s Largest College Radio Station on November 8

By Andy Gladding
Chief Engineer
WRHU-FM (Hofstra University), Hempstead, NY

imCollege radio is a special place on the FM dial. Listeners know it as the channel at the low end of the band where student and volunteer DJs have free reign to play music not usually heard from commercial operators. College students recognize it as a place where they can hone their broadcasting skills and put their passion and talents to work to prepare for a career in the industry. Hiring managers recognize it as a proving ground that provides quality pre-professional development and a destination to seek out qualified candidates to fill entry level media industry roles.

Despite the widespread recognition of the benefits and value of college radio stations, the format and institution has come under attack. Financial issues affecting the commercial sector of terrestrial broadcasting have led to a reduced perception of the effectiveness and reach of terrestrial FM, causing many universities across the country to part ways with their beloved heritage stations. Religious and community operators, recognizing the vulnerability of college operators, have actively approached educational institutions with cash offers to acquire the licenses and effectively end the independent radio voice of the college into the community. Many universities, facing their own financial issues due to declining enrollment and national attacks on the value and benefits of a four-year liberal arts education, are welcoming the opportunity for a quick infusion of cash for the acquisition their broadcast assets. This troubling trend paints a grim outlook for the future and sustainability of this widely popular medium.

However, in some markets, college radio is thriving and enjoying a renaissance. The New York radio market enjoys a wide variety of college programming across its heavily populated FM band and college stations in this market are considered a clearinghouse for students looking enter the country’s largest media sector. The tri-state area has over 20 university-owned stations operating on the FM band, with their parent organizations often touting them as some of the brightest jewels in the crown of their college media and communications program.

I have spent 20 years working as a student volunteer and administrator at WRHU, Radio Hofstra University and have seen first-hand how college radio contributes to the growth and success of students looking to pursue a career in radio, television and digital media. Students and community volunteers who participate at college radio stations find themselves engaged in a diverse community of voices, opinions and music. While their approach and interests may be different, their practice at the college radio station unites them with one unified goal: to serve the listening audience by creating imaginative and alternative audio programming using the university’s FM transmission facility as their channel to the world. For anyone who has been part of this experience as either a contributor or listener, the results can be absolutely magical. In the New York / New Jersey market, these stations and students have found a unique way to make their voices even louder, using some of the finest tools available in their radio and audio toolbox.

The Big 88

Wednesday, November 8, eight university and high school owned and operated stations broadcasting in the 88.1-88.9 segment of the FM band in the number one media market in the country will be joining together to celebrate their love of college radio. Starting at 12:00 noon, “The Big 88” will become New York and New Jersey’s largest college radio station, covering an FM broadcast footprint of over 120 miles. Participating stations will include WRSU, Rutgers University; WPSC, William Patterson University, WRHU, Hofstra University; WCWP, LIU Post; WARY, Westchester Community College; WFNP, SUNY-New Paltz; WPOB,  Plainview-Old Bethpage High School; and WKWZ ,Syosset High School.

Programming will feature voices and shows from all participating stations, a consolidated newscast from members of each station’s news department and appearances by station alumni working in radio. WRHU will also be hosting a meet and greet at their studios in Hempstead, NY, where participants are invited to gather to exchange station swag, music from local bands and stories. High school participants have also been invited to the WRHU studios to meet with the participating station members where they will get a first-hand look at what their college radio experience can look like. All of the participating stations hope that the broadcast will focus attention on the issues affecting college radio and encourage listeners and universities to continue to support the mission of student and community broadcasting.

For more information on the program schedule and participation, you can contact me at Andrew.j.gladding@hofstra.edu. All of the stations involved hope that listeners will tune in to enjoy this unique celebration of NCE radio.

Andy Gladding is the chief engineer and air personality at WRHU-FM, Hofstra University as well as chief engineer at Salem Media’s WNYM/WMCA, New York. He also is a communications lecturer at Hofstra.  

Ratings Takeaways

October 2023 PPM Ratings Takeaways – Part Four

imOctober 2023 PPM Data – Information for the October 2023 survey period (September 14 – October 11) has been released for Austin, Raleigh, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Nashville, Providence, Norfolk, Jacksonville, West Palm Beach, Greensboro, Memphis, and Hartford.

The only requirement for a spoken-word station to be included here is that they be a Nielsen Audio subscriber – there are no share or rank thresholds.

NFL; NBA; and NHL team names of corresponding spoken-word flagship(s) are bolded.

DNA – DNA = Did Not Appear – Does Not Appear

Comparisons are September 2023 – October 2023 (6+). 

AUSTIN

News/Talk

KLBJ-AM 3.4 – 4.7, #10 – #5

KJCE .3 – .4, #27 – #28

News

None

Sports Talk

KVET-AM 1.0 – 1.3, #22 – #22

KTAE DNA – .7, DNA – #25

KBPA-HD2 .4 – .5, #26 – #27

Public Radio News/Talk

KUT 5.3 – 5.6, #3 – #4    

Note: News/talk KLBJ-AM’s +1.3 (3.4 – 4.7) represents Austin’s largest September 2023 – October 2023 increase. 

RALEIGH

News/Talk

WTKK 9.4 – 8.2, #2 – #3

WPTF DNA – .7, DNA – #20

News

WRAL-HD3 .3 – .1, #15 – #23

Sports Talk

WCMC-FM 3.1 – 3.5, #8 – #11 (Carolina Hurricanes)

Public Radio News/Talk

WUNC 9.1 – 9.4, #3 – #2

Notes: News/Talk WTKK’s -1.2 (9.4 – 8.2) represents Raleigh’s largest September 2023 – October 2023 decrease.

Following a six-month absence, eight (8) Curtis Media Group stations – including news/talk WPTF – return as Nielsen Audio subscribers.

INDIANAPOLIS

News/Talk

WIBC 6.1 – 6.9, #4 – #3

News

WOLT-HD2 .1 – .1, #27 – #24

Sports Talk

WIBC-HD2 3.5 – 4.3, #13 – #12 (Colts)

WNDE .9 – .9, #22 – #21

WXNT .1 –.1, #27 – #24

Public Radio News/Talk

WFYI 6.4 – 4.6, #3 – #10

Note: Sports talk WFNI (DNA) is the flagship of the Pacers.

MILWAUKEE 

News/Talk

WISN 9.6 – 9.7, #2 – #1

WTMJ 9.8 – 9.6, #1 – #2 

WLIP DNA – .1, DNA – #28  

News

None

Sports Talk

WRNW 2.4 – 2.6, #13 – #14 (Green Bay Packers)

WKTI 1.0 – 1.0, #18 – #18

WOKY .2 – .4, #26 – #22

WSSP .2 – .2, #26 – #25

Public Radio News/Talk

WUWM 2.4 – 3.0, #13 – #13

WHAD 2.1 – 2.1, #16 – #17

WGKB DNA – .1, DNA – #28

WHAD Stream  DNA – DNA, DNA – DNA

Note: Public radio news/talk WUWM’s +.6 (2.4 – 3.0) ties classic hits-oldies WRIT for Milwaukee’s largest September 2023 – October 2023 increase.

NASHVILLE

News/Talk

WWTN 6.1 – 5.7, #4 – #5

WLAC 1.1 – 1.4, #19 – #19

News

WNRQ-HD2 .2 – DNA, #23 – DNA

Sports Talk

WGFX 7.2 – 7.3, #3 – #3 (Tennessee Titans)

WPRT 1.4 – 1.9, #17 – #17 (Predators)

Public Radio News/Talk

WPLN 5.5 – 4.1, #6 – #10

WPLN-HD3 Stream .2 – .2, #23 – #23 

Note: Public radio news/talk WPLN’s -1.4 (5.5 – 4.1) represents Nashville’s largest September 2023 – October 2023 decrease.

PROVIDENCE

News/Talk

WPRO-AM 6.1 – 6.5, #6 – #5

WHJJ  .3 – .3, fourth straight month at #18

News

None

Sports Talk

WBZ-FM 3.3 – 3.3, thirteenth consecutive month at #8

WVEI 2.3 – 2.4, #10 – #9

WPRV DNA – DNA, DNA – DNA

Public Radio News/Talk

WGBH 1.9 – 2.4, #12 – #9

WNPN 1.5 – 1.4, sixth straight month at #14

WCAI .1 – .1, #19 – #20

Note: Public radio news/talk WGBH’s +.5 (2.4 – 3.0) ties rock WHJY for Providence’s largest September 2023 – October 2023 increase.

NORFOLK

News/Talk

WNIS  3.5 – 3.3, #11 – #12

WGH-FM HD2 .2 – .2, #24 – #22

News

WNOH .4 – .3, #21 – #20

Sports Talk

WVSP 2.7 – 2.9, #13 – #13

WGH-AM .4 – .3, #21 – #20

Public Radio News/Talk

None

JACKSONVILLE

News/Talk

WOKV-FM 8.2 – 7.5, #3 – #3

News

None

Sports Talk

WOKV-AM .2 – .2, #23 – #22

Public Radio News/Talk

WJCT 2.6 – 2.8, #12 – #12

Note: Sports talk WJXL-AM (DNA); sports talk WJXL-FM (DNA); and country WGNE are the flagships of the Jaguars.

WEST PALM BEACH

News/Talk

WFTL 1.8 – 2.3, #12 – #9

WZZR 1.9 – 1.8 #10 – #13

WJNO 1.1 – 1.2, fourth successive month at #14

News

None

Sports Talk

WBZT .2 – .4, #19 – #18

WMEN .2 – .4, #19 – #18

Public Radio News/Talk

WLRN 2.6 – 2.5, #8 – #8

WLRN-HD2 Stream DNA – .2, DNA – #21

Note: News/talk WFTL’s +.5 (1.8 – 2.3) ties urban AC WMBX for West Palm Beach’s largest September 2023 – October 2023 increase. 

GREENSBORO

News/Talk

WPTI 4.5 – 4.9 #8 – #7

News

None

Sports Talk

None

Public Radio News/Talk

WFDD 3.5 – 3.5, #9 – #9

WUNC 1.4 – 1.7, #13 – #14

Note: Urban AC WQMG has the highest October 2023 share (14.0, 6+) of any station in all 48 PPM-markets.

MEMPHIS

News/Talk

WREC 2.1 – 2.4, #9 – #9

KWAM .4 – .2, #13 – #13

News

None

Sports Talk

WMFS 2.4 – 3.0, #8 – #7 (Grizzlies)

WMFS Stream DNA – .2, DNA – #13 (Grizzlies)

Public Radio News/Talk

WKNO 1.7 – 1.9, #11 – #10

Note: Urban contemporary WHRK’s -2.7 (10.3 – 7.6) represents the largest September 2023 – October 2023 decrease by any station in all 48 PPM-markets.

HARTFORD

News/Talk

WTIC-AM 5.2 – 5.1, #6 – #6

WDRC-AM 2.3 – 1.9, #12 – #15

WTIC-AM Stream .8 – .8, fourth consecutive month at #17

WPOP .2 – .2, #22 – #22

News

None

Sports Talk

WUCS 1.7 – 2.5, #15 – #11

Public Radio News/Talk

WNPR 3.7 – 3.8, #9 – #9

WFCR .6 – .8, #18 – #17

Note: While sports talk WUCS’ +.8 (1.7 – 2.5) represents Hartford’s largest September 2023 – October 2023 increase, news/talk WDRC-AM’s -.4 (2.3 – 1.9) is the market’s largest September 2023 – October 2023 decrease.

Mike.Kinosian@gmail.com

Industry Views

The Vital Element of Surprise

By Walter Sabo
Consultant, Sabo Media Implementers
A.K.A. Walter Sterling
Radio Host, “Sterling On Sunday”
Talk Media Network

Visitors to Disneyland five years ago will be given a memorable experience when they visit this month. About 50% of Disneyland has changed since 2018. The theme park constantly changes, trying new rides, exhibits, displays. Walt Disney never considered his park to be finished. Roy Disney said that Walt viewed Disneyland as a giant block of clay which could be molded and remolded constantly. Changing the park constantly gives visitors surprises, joy and the excitement of the unexpected. The unexpected at Disneyland is newness in its ideal form: Everything is new, memorable and completely safe.

Your show, music or talk, has the same power to create memorable entertainment. Wrapped in the safety of your voice, and your familiar station, you can SAY the unexpected, the surprising, the new.

Remember when the news was a radio station? Remember when a radio station generated word of mouth, talk at work, and gossip among friends? It could have been yesterday or years ago. A radio station or on-air talent was at the epicenter of the community’s conversation when it did the unexpected. 

The short list 

A station said the name of your business. Gave away an outrageous prize. Roasted a pig. Lesbian Dial-A-Date. Broke a record. Asked the caller if they were naked. Aired Amazing Mouth TV Spots. There is no top-of-mind real estate claimed by a station if it is following the format really well.

Delivering surprises is not hard, but it is essential to the medium’s growth. Today, the most recent “surprises” have been all wrong. Too often the surprise is the public shaming and forced apology of a host because of an unfortunate comment about Erin Andrews or slight of a team owner.  (BTW, the single dumbest management move is a public apology. Thousands of people learn of the incident who would never have known about it if the moment was allowed to pass.)

You may be worried that if you or an air talent break the corporate dictate format, all will be fired. No. You know where you can experiment. Your experiment could lead to a new, fresh awareness of your station and of your hard work. Do it.

WALTER SABO’s company, Sabo Media has advised the C Suite of some of America’s largest media companies including SiriusXM Satellite Radio, Apollo Advisors, Conde Nast, Wall Street Journal Radio, RKO General, and NBC. He is a member of the Nominating Committee of the national Radio Hall of Fame and on the Dean’s Advisory Board of the Newhouse School of Communications at Syracuse University.  His radio show, “Sterling on Sunday” is heard nationally.www.waltersterlingshow.com  Contact him at walter@sabomedia.com

Industry News

Saga Communications Reports Q3 Revenue Down 2.8%

Saga Communications issues its Q3 2023 operating results and says net revenue for the period was $29.2 million, a decrease 2.8%. Station operating expense increased 2.1% for the quarter to $22.8 million compared to the same period last year. For the quarter, operating income was $3.5 millionim compared to $1.1 million for the same quarter last year and station operating income (a non-GAAP financial measure) decreased 14.7% to $7.6 million. Saga reports a net income of $2.7 million for Q3 2023 compared to the net loss of $104,000 it reported a year ago. The company’s balance sheet reflects $41.7 million in cash and short-term investments as of September 30, 2023. Saga also announces that it is paying a quarterly dividend of $0.25 per share on November 3, 2023 to shareholders of record as of October 11, 2023. The aggregate amount of the quarterly dividend will be approximately $1.5 million.

Industry News

Darren McKee Joins Altitude Sports Radio in Denver

The Denver Post reports that Mile High City sports talker Darren McKee, a.k.a. DMac, joins the midday show at KSE Radio Ventures’ KKSE-FM “Altitude Sports Radio 92.5.” DMac partnersim with Scott Hastings and Tyler Polumbus for the 12:00 noon to 3:00 pm “P.H.D.” show. The 24-year Denver sports radio pro was let go from Bonneville’s KKFN-FM “104.3 The Fan” in September. KSE Radio SVP/GM Dave Fleck comments, “We are excited to add Darren to our new and improved midday P.H.D. show. He is a respected member of the community whose work ethic and passion for broadcasting will help take our radio stations to new heights. Having DMac as part of ‘Altitude Sports Radio’ allows us to reconfigure our daily lineup while adding a great voice to the station.” Read the Post story here.

Industry News

Salem Partners with Just The News for Podcasts

Salem Media Group announces a new partnership between the Salem Podcast Network and Just Theim News for its podcasts from John Solomon, Victor Davis Hanson, and “Bauer and Rose” on the SPN platform. The agreement allows Salem to market and sell the podcasts to its array of advertisers and provide additional promotional support. Salem SVP Phil Boyce says, “John Solomon and his team are a perfect fit for Salem and will provide an additional layer of news credibility to the stories he covers. When you add Victor Davis Hanson’s podcasts, and those of Bauer and Rose, it makes the partnership complete.” Solomon comments, “Salem Podcast Network has amassed one of the most formidable audiences and lineups in the industry. We are excited to be joining the team and introducing our news and analysis to a whole new audience.”

Industry News

Newsweek Launches Josh Hammer Weekly Radio Show

Newsweek is launching a weekly talk radio version of its podcast, “The Josh Hammer Show” with Bonneville’s news/talk KTTH-AM, Seattle as its flagship station. The program debuts on Saturday (11/4)im anchored by Newsweek senior editor-at-large Josh Hammer. Newsweek says the program’s goal is to “navigate the converging realms of politics, law, and culture while deliberating on the evolution of American conservatism. Hammer, with his background as a constitutional lawyer, intends to present commentary accompanied by interactions with contemporary conservative thought leaders.” Newsweek director of radio and podcasting Jesse Edwards adds, “Josh Hammer is going to be the next big voice in conservative talk radio, and we couldn’t be more thrilled to bring his powerful message to the airwaves of Seattle, and beyond.”

Industry News

Broadcasters Foundation Launches Year-End Giving Campaign

The Broadcasters Foundation of America launches its annual Year-End Giving Campaign this week. The 501c3 charity provides financial aid to broadcast radio and television colleagues who are in need due to debilitating illness, accident, or tragedy. The Year-End Giving Campaign asks for personal tax-imdeductible donations to the Guardian Fund. Corporate donations can be given to the Angel Initiative, which is also tax deductible. BFoA chairman Scott Herman states, “Life can change in a heartbeat, and exorbitant medical bills can leave one of our colleagues in broadcasting in desperate need of assistance. I’m asking everyone in radio and television to consider a donation, in any amount, so that we can continue to provide assistance to those in our industry who need it most.” Find information about the Broadcasters Foundation and donate or apply for aid here.

Industry News

Free Talk Live Continues Distribution Via GCN

The nationally syndicated talk radio show “Free Talk Live” continues to be distributed by Genesis Communications Network after that company and Westwood One were unable to come to terms on a new satellite distribution deal. FTL founder Ian Freeman says the show continues with GCN via itsim ECHO box technology. He says, “GCN’s Adam Miller explains that their ECHO Files can easily be synced with most radio automation systems for easy delay broadcast with no new hardware needed and about fifteen minutes setup time! There is no need to have staff do daily chores like pulling files manually from an FTP or website. Those days are done! For live affiliates GCN has their ECHO Box that comes pre-programmed for the shows the affiliate carries. The ECHO Box can also do delay broadcast. They are sending these out with priority to stations that take the largest number of live hours, but eventually all live affiliates will receive them as dozens more of the very small ECHO Boxes will be coming in early November.” Affiliates with questions can call Adam Miller at 612-695-5982.

Industry News

Yesterday’s (11/1) Top News/Talk Media Stories

The ongoing Israel-Hamas war, international pleas for humanitarian pause in Gaza attacks and the increasing incidents of anti-Semitism globally; the Fed keeps interest rates at current level; former President Donald Trump’s legal battles; House Speaker Mike Johnson’s leadership; GOP frustration over Senator Tommy Tuberville’s hold on military nominees; the 2024 presidential race; Tuesday’s Ohio ballot issue on abortion access; and legendary college basketball coach Bobby Knight dies were some of the most-talked-about stories in news/talk media yesterday, according to ongoing research from TALKERS magazine.

Ratings Takeaways

October 2023 PPM Ratings Takeaways – Part Three

imOctober 2023 PPM Data – Information for Nielsen Audio’s October 2023 PPM ratings period (September 14 – October 11) has been released for Portland, Charlotte, San Antonio, Sacramento, Pittsburgh, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Orlando, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Kansas City, and Columbus.

The only requirement for a spoken-word station to be included here is that they be a Nielsen Audio subscriber – there are no share or rank thresholds.

NFL; NBA; and NHL team names of corresponding spoken-word flagship(s) are bolded.

DNA – DNA = Did Not Appear – Does Not Appear

Comparisons are September 2023 – October 2023 (6+).

PORTLAND

News/Talk

KXL 6.7 – 6.9, #3 – #3

KEX 1.4 – 1.7, #22 – #21

KUFO .7 – .7, #26 – #24

KPAM .1 – .1, #33 – #34

News

None

Sports Talk

KFXX 1.5 – 2.0, #21 – #18

KXTG 1.0 – 1.6, #23 – #22

KPOJ .4 – .7, #28 – #24 (Trailblazers)

KFXX Stream  .1 – .3, #33 – #28

KMTT .2 – .2, #30 – #31

Public Radio News/Talk

KOPB 6.3 – 5.9, #4 – #4

KOPB Stream  2.0 – 1.6, #18 – #22

CHARLOTTE

News/Talk

WBT-AM 5.2 – 5.3, #5 – #5

News

None

Sports Talk

WFNZ-FM 2.4 – 2.7, #14 – #13 (Hornets)

WSOC-HD3 .1 – .1, #26 – #26

Public Radio News/Talk

WFAE 5.2 – 4.0, #5 – #10

WNSC 1.0 – 1.2, #18 – #18

WFAE-HD3 .3 – DNA, #21 – #DNA  

Notes: Public Radio News/Talk WFAE’s -1.2 (5.2 – 4.0) represents Charlotte’s largest September 2023 – October 2023 decrease; classic rock WRFX is the flagship of the Carolina Panthers.

SAN ANTONIO

News/Talk

WOAI 2.6 – 2.8, #15 – #13 (Spurs)

KTSA 2.2 – 2.6, #19 – #15

News

None

Sports Talk

KTFM 1.3 – 1.7, #24 – #22

KTKR .9 – .7, #26 – #27

KZDC .2 – .2, #37 – #35

Public Radio News/Talk

KSTX 1.6 – 1.7, #21 – #22 

SACRAMENTO

News/Talk

KFBK-AM 10.1 – 8.2 #1 – #2

KSTE-AM 3.3 – 2.7, #12 – #13

News

None

Sports Talk

KHTK 1.1 – 1.3, #20 – #18 (Kings)

KIFM 1.0 – 1.2, #22 – #20

KIFM Stream  .1 – .1, #29 – #30 

Public Radio News/Talk

KXJZ 1.9 – 1.8, #15 – #15

KQEI .3 – .2, #27 – #27

KQED .3 – .1, #27 – #30

KUOP DNA – DNA, DNA – DNA

Note: News/Talk KFBK-AM’s -1.9 (10.1 – 8.2) represents Sacramento’s largest September 2023 – October 2023 decrease.

PITTSBURGH

News/Talk

KDKA-AM 4.0 – 3.8, #10 – #11

KDKA-AM Stream  .7 – .5, #22 – #23

News

None

Sports Talk

KDKA-FM 7.9 – 8.0, #3 – #3

KDKA-FM Stream  .4 – .2, #25 – #28

Public Radio News/Talk

WESA 4.1 – 4.2, #8 – #7

Note: The flagships of the Steelers and Penguins are rock WDVE and alternative WXDX, respectively.

SALT LAKE CITY

News/Talk

KSL-AM/FM 5.2 – 6.9, #5 – #2

KNRS-AM/FM 4.0 – 2.9, #9 – #15

KKAT .1 – .1, #29 – #29

News

None

Sports Talk

KALL 1.7 – 1.8, #22 – #20

KZNS-FM 1.1 – .8, #24 – #24 (Utah Jazz)

KZNS-AM .4 – .5, #27 – #26 (Utah Jazz)

KZNS-FM Stream  .1 – .1, #29 – #29 (Utah Jazz)

KZNS-AM Stream  .1 – .1, #29 – #29 (Utah Jazz)

KOVO .1 – .1, #29 – #29

Public Radio News/Talk

KUER 2.5 – 2.2, #17 – #19

KBYU-HD2 Stream  .5 – .5, #26 – #26

KUMT .4 – .1, #27 – #29    

Note: News/Talk KSL-AM’s +1.7 (5.2 – 6.9) represents Salt Lake City’s largest September 2023 – October 2023 increase; conversely, similarly-formatted KNRS-FM’s -1.1 (4.0 – 2.9) is tied for the market’s largest September 2023 – October 2023 decrease. 

LAS VEGAS

News/Talk

KMXB-HD3 1.9 – 1.6, #18 – #22

KXNT .6 – .5, #28 – #29

KMZQ .1 – .1, #36 – #36

News

None

Sports Talk

KWWN .9 – 1.0, #27 – #27

KENO .3 – .5, #32 – #29

KRLV .3 – .3, #32 – #32 (Raiders)

KKGK .2 – .3, #35 – #32 (Golden Knights)

Public Radio News/Talk

KNPR 1.2 – 1.4, #26 – #23

ORLANDO

News/Talk

WTKS 4.6 – 3.9, #8 – #10

WDBO 3.4 – 3.5, #12 – #13

WFLF 1.0 – .9, #21 – #19

WFYY-HD3 DNA – DNA, DNA – DNA

News

None

Sports Talk

WYGM 1.1 – .7, #20 – #22 (Magic)

WOCL-HD2 DNA – .1, DNA – #28

Public Radio News/Talk

WMFE 2.4 – 2.2, #15 – #15

CINCINNATI

News/Talk

WLW 13.9 – 13.5, 21st consecutive month at #1 (Bengals)

WKRC 4.6 – 5.4, #6 – #5

News

None

Sports Talk

WCKY 1.6 – 1.9, #18 – #18 (Bengals)

WSAI .6 – 1.0, #22 – #20

Public Radio News/Talk

WVXU 3.6 – 3.2, #9 – #11

CLEVELAND

News/Talk

WTAM 6.1 – 5.5, #7 – #10 (Cavaliers)

News

WMMS-HD2 DNA – .1, DNA – #24

Sports Talk

WKRK 5.1 – 5.9, #10 – #8  (Browns)

WKRK Stream  .8 – .9, #17 – #18 (Browns)

WARF .3 – .2, #20 – #23

Public Radio News/Talk

WKSU 4.9 – 5.9, #11 – #8

WKSU-HD4 .1 – DNA, #22 – DNA   

Note: Public Radio News/Talk WKSU’s +1.0 (4.9 – 5.9) represents Cleveland’s largest September 2023 – October 2023 increase.

KANSAS CITY

News/Talk

KMBZ-FM 5.1 – 5.5, #4 – #4

KCMO-AM 1.0 – 1.6, #20 – #17

KMBZ-AM 1.2 – 1.2, #19 – #21

KMBZ-FM Stream  .9 – .9, #22 – #22

KCMO-AM Stream  .1 – .2, #30 – #26

KMBZ-FM HD2 DNA – DNA, DNA – DNA

News

None

Sports Talk

KCSP 3.1 – 3.1, #13 – #14

KCSP Stream  .6 – .4, #23 – #23

Public Radio News/Talk

KCUR 3.2 – 3.2, #12 – #13

KANU-HD2 .1 – DNA, #30 – DNA

Note: Country WDAF is the flagship of the Chiefs.

COLUMBUS

News/Talk

WTVN 7.3 – 7.5, #4 – #4    

News

None

Sports Talk

WBNS-FM 7.9 – 8.6, #2 – #2 (Blue Jackets)

WBNS-AM DNA – .1, DNA – #21 (Blue Jackets)

WMNI .1 – .1, #22 – #21

Public Radio News/Talk

WOSU 4.5 – 3.9, #8 – #9

Up next: October 2023 overviews for Austin; Raleigh; Indianapolis; Milwaukee; Nashville; Providence; Norfolk; Jacksonville; West Palm Beach; Greensboro; Memphis; and Hartford.

Mike.Kinosian@gmail.com

Industry News

WJR, Detroit Announces New Drive Time Programming

Cumulus Media announces additions to the morning and afternoon drive dayparts at news/talk WJR, Detroit. First is the all-new “JR Morning with Guy, Lloyd, and Jamie” program airing from 6:00 am to 9:00 am and starring Guy Gordon, Lloyd Jackson, and Jamie Edmonds. The station says, “The dynamicim team of award-winning journalists brings a fresh perspective to mornings while delivering a perfect mix of news, sports, and entertainment.” Also, station traffic and weather anchor Renee Vitale becomes co-host of “First Thing with Mike Parsons” from 5:00 am to 6:00 am. The station is pairing Detroit Lions great Lomas Brown with WJR’s Sean Baligian for the 6:00 pm to 7:00 pm “Sportswrap with Lomas Brown and Sean Baligian” program. Cumulus Media regional VP and market manager Steve Finateri comments, “‘JR Morning with Guy, Lloyd and Jamie’ plus ‘SportsWrap with Lomas Brown and Sean Baligian’ as bookends to our current big-name local daily shows on WJR has given ‘The Great Voice of The Great Lakes’ more prime time firepower than at any time in the past 20 years!”

Industry News

Beasley Media Group Q3 Net Revenue Falls 5.8%

Reporting its operating results for the third quarter of 2023, Beasley Media Group says net revenue was $60.1 million, a decrease of 5.8% over the same period in 2022. The company also reports a net loss of $67.5 million compare to the net income of $500,000 it reported in the third quarter of 2022, due largely to non-cash impairment losses.  Beasley CEO Caroline Beasley comments, “Beasley’s third quarter financial results reflect the well-publicized economic challenges and continued advertising market softness which we outlined in the prior quarters. Similar to recent quarters, Beasley delivered strongim digital revenue growth of 9.1% year-over-year, with digital revenue representing 18.6% of total third quarter revenue. Our continued strong digital revenue growth has moved us to within a few basis points of reaching the bottom end of our goal of digital revenue accounting for 20% to 30% of total revenue, and we remain laser focused on this initiative as a means to diversify our revenue in a cash flow positive manner. Our dedicated sales teams continue to leverage the tremendous audience reach and engagement of our local multi-platform content to attract new advertisers, resulting in a 22% increase in new local business revenue growth for the third quarter. Additionally, the actions we have taken to reduce our cost structure resulted in third quarter operating and corporate expenses decreases of 2.7% and 12.5%, respectively. In summary, we believe our third quarter financial performance demonstrates that our digital transformation and revenue diversification strategies continue to gain momentum and our initiatives focused on lowering operating expenses and reducing debt are positioning Beasley to generate increased and more diversified cash flows in future periods. Looking ahead, as has always been the case for non-election years, we expect fourth quarter revenues to be somewhat impacted by the absence of cyclical political advertising. While we plan to offset some of this expected softness through continued growth in digital and new business, we are hopeful that the overall advertising environment will improve in the fourth quarter and continue to closely monitor the economy.”

Industry News

SiriusXM Q3 Revenue Flat

The third quarter 2023 revenue for SiriusXM was $2.27 billion, basically flat from the same period in 2022. The satellite and internet broadcaster reports net income of $363 million for the quarter. SiriusXMim noted that it lost about 96,000 self-pay subscribers during the quarter and states that its current total subscribers stands at 34 million. SiriusXM CEO Jennifer Witz says, “We are very excited to unveil SiriusXM’s next-generation platform on November 8th, a key component of our long-term vision for the company’s consumer offerings. Our content portfolio continues to differentiate us in the audio marketplace with exclusive access to live sports, talk, music and one-of-a-kind content.”

Industry News

iHeartMedia Debuts “The Patriot” in Vero Beach

iHeartMedia Treasure Coast announces the debut of the new “Newsradio 107.9 FM/1370 AM The Patriot” on (former oldies) WZTA-AM/W300BQ, Vero Beach. The station is airing “The Brian Mudd Show” in morning drive, simulcast from its home base at WJNO-AM, West Palm Beach. Otherim programming includes Premiere Networks’ “The Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Show” and “The Jesse Kelly Show,” as well as programming from Westwood One. iHeartMedia SVP of programming Jason Carr says, “We’re excited to bring ‘The Patriot’ to Vero Beach with local talk and news from ‘The Brian Mudd Show’ and some of the biggest names in national talk radio. ‘The Patriot’ will super-serve the growing Vero Beach community, with the most up-to-date news, weather and sports updates, including sources like FOX News and the Florida News Network.”

Industry News

NPR and Edison Research to Release Spoken Word Audio Report

Next Thursday (11/9), NPR and Edison Research will present a webinar to reveal the results of theirim Spoken Word Audio Report 2023. According to data from the study, 48% of those in the U.S. age 13+ listen to some type of spoken-word audio daily, and audio consumers in the U.S. age 13+ spend 31% of their daily audio time with spoken word. They say this edition of the study focuses on listening locations and explores spoken-word audio consumption at home, at work, in-car, and other locations. Register for the webinar here.

Industry News

Fisher House Offers Free Veterans Day Weekend Radio Show

Fisher House Foundation is offering to news/talk radio stations a free Veterans Day Weekend edition of “The Fisher House Story.” This program is provided in varying lengths for news/talk radio stations as well as a 30-minute public affairs show for all formats in the U.S. and around the world. The programs are hosted by radio pro Larry O’Connor (AM drive host at WMAL-FM, Washington, DC) and featuresim stories of our nation’s heroes, the families who serve by their side, and how Fisher House plays a role in their journey. Fisher House Foundation provides a home away from home for families of patients receiving medical care at major military and VA medical centers. Fisher Houses provide temporary free lodging so families can be close to their loved ones during medical care. The inspiring and patriotic radio show features an exclusive interview with Jessica Lynch who recounts her harrowing experience as a prisoner of war during the early days of the 2003 invasion of Iraq during Operation Enduring Freedom. She reveals details of her treatment during her captivity, her rescue, the ensuing years of medical treatment and the special role Fisher House played (and continues to play) in her recovery. Hear the demo and register for the show here.

Industry News

WABC, New York Presents Cuomo-Scaramucci Debate

im

Red Apple Media’s news/talk 77WABC in New York pre-empted regular programming today to present an exclusive, two-hour, no-holds-barred discussion between former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo and former White House Communications Director and financier Anthony Scaramucci. The debate touched on the issues including, crime, Israel, migrants, guns and assault weapons, abortion, taxes and SALT, bail reform, LGBTQ+ rights, COVID and possible future pandemics, and the impact of both Republican and Democratic extremists on mainstream America. Scaramucci pointed to the current lack of trust the public has for government as the biggest obstacle standing in the way of unity and progress. Cuomo urged the audience to listen, learn, and understand the other side.