Monday Memo: Music Lessons For Talk Radio
By Holland Cooke
Consultant
Music radio’s competitors were vinyl, then tape, then CDs – before smartphone streaming and satellite radio offered more portability and variety. And before consolidation, broadcasters were under less of the revenue pressure that now commercializes many stations beyond listeners’ tolerance. TALKERS NAB Show coverage included Edison Research founder Larry Rosin lamenting “many, many [music] stations now loading all their spots into two interminable breaks per hour.” I cringe hearing FMs struggle to remain among listeners’ music appliances. And I fret that monologue-heavy talk radio is relinquishing interactive dialogue to social media.
Before moving to all-news, and eventually news/talk, I worked in music formats less-structured than today’s. So now I hear music radio as an outsider, more like a consumer. Which got me wondering: How does my format sound to music consultants? So, I asked several whose work I respect.
Beware the one-joke act
Mike McVay reckons that “listeners want to know a little bit about a lot of things,” a point other colleagues echo. Explaining that “music radio is all about variety,” adult contemporary specialist Gary Berkowitz: “To me, listeners are tired of all this political back and forth. Sure, it has its place, but it’s like if music radio only played five different artists!” Jon Holiday – who customizes station playlists for a variety of formats – asks “are talk listeners getting what they want?” Calling some formats “very artist-heavy,” he thinks stations were right to play so much Taylor Swift in 2024, certainly her year. And 2025 sure is Trump’s, but Holiday calls “banging the same drum all day, every day” the most common flaw he hears on talk radio.
McVay says listeners like “stories that pull on their heart strings. It’s why “NBC Nightly News” ends with a touching story. It’s not fluff. It’s information relief.” He also recommends topics you are likely to overhear at the next table during lunch: “Discretionary Time Information” (binge-worthy shows on Apple+, Max, Netflix). Health. And – lately more than ever – what Mike calls “purse” stories (think: eggs). Been to Costco? On weekends it’s mobbed. Ask any member and they’ll recite a shopping list of Kirkland-brand bargains.
Play the hits
When Gary Berkowitz – then an accomplished music programmer – took over stately WJR, he “approached it like it was a music station, the only difference was my ‘songs’ were my personalities, news coverage and, at the time, play-by-play of all the major Detroit teams.” He bought a jingle package “to ‘decorate’ the station;” and “got ‘JR involved with everything that was happening in Detroit. All I did was put it all together and present it like my top-40 upbringing taught me.”
I can relate. Before I programmed all-news WTOP, Washington, I had no news experience. I came from a music FM. The WTOP staff I inherited was impressive, and their work was solid, but the station wasn’t “programmed enough.” I was sent there to convert Cume to Average Quarter Hour – the blocking-and-tackling formatics fundamental to music radio. We owned “the Top news…instantly” image, and we said those very words LOTS. But research told us that traffic and weather were “the hits;” and how we presented them moved the needle.
Great talkers are great listeners
In every transaction, consumers now expect to interact; and “listeners like to hear others’ voices,” Mike McVay observes: “When the audience is comfortable enough to weigh in with an opinion, their own story, or a reaction, you’ve created a ‘friend circle.’” Jon Holiday tells morning shows he works with to “take time going into breaks to be topical and interact with callers.” And engage by texting and social media. And don’t just push-TO listeners. Be quick to REPLY, and you will make them feel special.
Yet, in three decades coaching talk hosts, the most unwelcome word I say seems to be “callers.” Imitating gifted Rush Limbaugh, many hosts are prone to windy monologue, rather than inviting the busy dialogue that makes a station sound popular (something local advertisers notice). DJs deftly weaving interactivity into music shows often sound more inviting than sermonizing talkers. Holiday remembers El Rushbo as “a master at having fun, particularly in his early days as a syndicated personality.”
Prescription: Local
Twenty years ago at the TALKERS conference, publisher Michael Harrison’s advice was elegantly simple: “Give them something they can’t get anywhere else.” Especially now, with so many non-local audio competitors. Regardless of format, helpful local information can increase Occasions of Tune-In per week.
Simply doing local news is a start. But does yours enable the listener by telling what an item means to him or her? On any given day, what you’re overhearing at lunch is something big that’s happening somewhere else. Can you explain the local impact? “National news needs to mean something to me, my community, my region or state,” according to McVay.
With weather so erratic in so many places, owning that image is gold. If you’re news/talk, don’t assume that you’re the market’s weather station. If you’re music, don’t assume you can’t be. Noting typical news/talk demographics, Jon Holiday surmises that, “as we get older, we seem to be more interested in weather.”
And as successful music stations have always done, show up! Gary Berkowitz had WJR go all-in on Detroit’s Thanksgiving Day parade, “with our people all over the parade route. It was better than the TV coverage!”
Holland Cooke (HollandCooke.com) is a consultant working the intersection of broadcasting and the Internet. Follow HC on Twitter @HollandCooke and connect on LinkedIn
(pictured here) that aired on the program yesterday (3/13). TALKERS publisher Michael Harrison was among those interviewed for the eight-minute segment called Radio Diaries. Pyne began his career as a disc jockey but after injecting political commentary into his show was encouraged to do more talking and that eventually evolved into the Joe Pyne radio show that the NBC Radio Network put into syndication in 1966. Pyne enjoyed bringing controversial guests – including “hippies, women’s libbers, Scientologists, swingers, a snake charmer, members of the Ku Klux Klan and the John Birch Society.” He then segued to television in Los Angeles. Harrison is quoted in the segment saying, “There were a lot of people that didn’t like Pyne, but they watched him anyway because they thought it was — amusing? Entertaining? Sensational? Different? You know, not boring.” Photo: Everett Collection 
International Day of the United Nations, February 13 became World Radio Day (WRD). Each year WRD focuses on a specific theme involving radio that is timely, and important. This year the theme is “Radio and Climate Change.” UNESCO points out: Radio contributes to the achievement of its international objectives by supporting populations through climate disasters such as tropical storms and floods. It helps with the dissemination of fact-based information, listeners’ voices, and dedicated radio shows. 
pm on Saturday, March 8 in the heart of the iconic IBS gathering. It will feature an array of six sessions with 16+ luminary industry speakers (to be named shortly) including a keynote address, fireside chat, and four panel discussions that will tackle such topics as “Launching and Managing a Career in a Changing Media Industry,” “Old School, New School, Next School: Learning from Each Other,” “Radio’s Place in a Digital World,” “Finding and Delivering Truth in an Age of Misinformation,” and much more. TALKERS will also serve as the Presenting Sponsor of the entire IBSNYC 2025 event.
Harrison as “one of the most dynamic and effective radio managers in America” – has served as president of WABC Radio, Red Apple Media Group, and the Red Apple Audio Network since the iconic AM station was acquired and expanded five years ago by New York-based billionaire businessman / talk show host / philanthropist John Catsimatidis. Since then, the station and its associated media group have shown explosive growth that has grabbed the attention and respect of the national broadcasting industry. Prior to joining Red Apple, Lopez had already achieved notable recognition for his leadership as VP/MM of Cumulus New York and before that as GSM of CBS Radio New York. The Fireside Chat will be one of the highlights of the innovative four-hour TALKERS event on Saturday, March 8 that will be co-located with the national Intercollegiate Broadcasting System (IBS) conference March 7-8 at the Sheraton New York Times Square hotel. More speakers will be announced next week. For more information about the event including discount conference registration and room registrations, please see the story immediately below.
acquisition of AMFM, took on an EVP role at Premiere Networks. He was the president of the fledgling liberal talk radio company Air America and joined Westwood One after Air America shut down in 2006. TALKERS publisher Michael Harrison states, “This is a devastating loss to the radio industry. I had the privilege of working with Gary all the way back to my music radio days when he was a young executive at the old MJI Broadcasting with major industry players like Julie Talbott and Josh Feigenbaum in the early days of our careers. He has subsequently worn a number of key management and entrepreneurial hats in the business – all reflecting his dedication to professionalism and quality. He was very well liked and respected by broadcasters on both sides of the Atlantic. He will be missed.” A service will be held on January 26, 2025 at Riverside Memorial Chapel at 180 West 76th Street, New York, NY 10023. In lieu of flowers, the family requests donations be made to the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention in Gary Krantz’s memory.
philanthropist Harry Hurley, has raised more than $1.4 million for worthy causes across New Jersey and beyond. It has become one of the most important annual civic events in the Garden State drawing 270+ guests including government officials, media representatives and community-minded business leaders. The gala will be at Resorts Casino Hotel in Atlantic City. Harrison says, “This is a huge honor and I’m looking forward to addressing this distinguished event with observations about the media’s position at the crossroads between politics, journalism and changing social norms.” Hurley tells TALKERS, “Our special event will be taking place four weeks before one of the most consequential national elections in American history… arguably, the most important election since the Civil War era. It deserves to have a keynote speaker as even-handed and eloquent as Michael Harrison.”
In the opinion of TALKERS publisher Michael Harrison, we are entering an era in which it is possible – even likely – for robot voices generated by artificial intelligence to replace at least some human talk show hosts, especially in the wake of relentless corporate cost-cutting by radio’s largest companies. On the music radio side, the process of “voice tracking,” although initially controversial, has become a widely employed budget-tightening process. However, voice tracking still employs organic talent to generate the verbal content.
AI, on the other hand, bypasses the human element completely. In a guest appearance yesterday (8/22) on the Manny Munoz mid-morning show on WIOD, Miami, in which the subject of AI was being discussed, Harrison said, “AI is upping the bar. If talk show hosts don’t stay on their game and avoid relying too heavily on the talking points – if they are not creative thinkers and leaders – they can easily be replaced by computer operators.” Harrison continued, “It won’t be too long from now – actually, it is already possible – that two robots could be having a plausible conversation if both have been fed all the talking points.” Harrison explained, “Each robot will have instant access to all the existent talking points at the speed of light. Robots are already beating human experts at Jeopardy or chess. The only thing a robot can’t do – at least for now – is to be creative outside the realm of what already exists in cyberspace. That’s the challenge facing anyone who wants to be a live traditional radio talk show host in this coming brave new world.” Harrison’s appearance on WIOD was part of his ongoing talk radio “Obsolete Slobs” tour in which he’s been promoting the Gunhill Road music video “Artificial Intelligence (No Robots Were Injured in the Production of this Song” (www.
news/talk stations plus the John Fredericks Radio Network. He adds, “This undertaking was never authorized, sanctioned, or endorsed by President Trump or his campaign. Despite several very direct public communications disavowing any affiliation by Trump campaign senior staff, the fake news continued to propagate phony stories, which The Heritage Foundation and their Project 2025 leaders were willing and happy to substantiate. Sources say President Trump made the decision to shut it down himself. Good riddance to yet another grift charade using Trump to raise money.” TALKERS publisher Michael Harrison commented on Fredericks’ statement saying, “It has been disturbing watching the once-honored think tank known for its even-handed academic fastidiousness devolve into what is now perceived as just another fund-raising propaganda machine in the mud-slinging political wars. This is the kind of credibility squandering that damages the true American conservative moment and people’s confidence in all political organizations.”
stations mostly for classic hits and adult contemporary music formats. Prior to syndication, Kent worked on the air and in programming at legendary Top 40 stations including WLS, Chicago; KLIF & KFJZ Dallas-Ft Worth; WIBG Philadelphia and more. On the passing of Tom Kent, TALKERS founder Michael Harrison states, “He was a quintessential practitioner of one of America’s great forms of audio art – top 40 radio. The disc jockey, in that now almost completely extinct genre, was a uniquely specialized vocal performer akin to being a singer or musical instrument deftly inserted within the hyper-dynamic backdrop of a symphony known as a radio format. Art Vuolo’s video captures not only the superb talent possessed by Kent in executing this amazing audio choreography – but amply displays his passion for excellence and behind-the-scenes pride. When Kent seamlessly hits the posts on driving rock intros of songs with which he is intimately familiar and pumps his fist with glee when pulling it off, it unleashes an adrenaline rush similar to a pro basketball star landing a slam dunk and swinging that extra second from the rim.