Industry Views

When Borrowed Becomes Stolen: The Fair Use Line for Talk Hosts and Podcasters

By Matthew B. Harrison
TALKERS, VP/Associate Publisher
Harrison Media Law, Senior Partner
Goodphone Communications, Executive Producer

imgJimmy Kimmel’s first monologue back after the recent suspension had the audience laughing and gasping, and, in the hands of countless radio hosts and podcasters, replaying. Within hours, clips of his bit weren’t just being shared online. They were being chopped up, (re)framed, and (re)analyzed as if they were original show content. For listeners, that remix feels fresh. For lawyers, it is a fair use minefield.

Playing the Clip, Owning the Take

Audiences increasingly expect their favorite talkers to “play the clip,” whether it is from Kimmel, Stephen Colbert, Sid Rosenberg, or Charlamagne tha God on The Breakfast Club (a show that seems to go viral every other week), and then add their own color commentary, the kind of play-by-play that makes it feel like the home team is calling the action. That format works. It gives context, tone, and a sense of immediacy that no transcript can match. Done right, it is what transforms a broadcast from just a recap into a fulfilling cultural conversation.

But with every replay comes a risk. Fair use does not mean free use. Courts weigh factors like how much of the original work you used, whether your purpose was transformative, and whether your use cuts into the market value of the original. Playing a short excerpt of Kimmel’s joke before riffing on it? Likely fair. Running half the monologue and treating it as your A-block? That edges into trouble, both legally and from a programming perspective. Why would anyone want to hear your take if your “take” is mostly replaying someone else? That is not adding to the common zeitgeist; it is just echoing it.

The Podcaster and Broadcaster Dilemma

Radio hosts have long leaned on “newsworthiness” as a shield. Podcasters often assume the same rules apply. But here is the distinction: news clips and comedy bits are not treated equally in court. A station rebroadcasting a press conference is serving public information. A podcast re-airing Kimmel is competing directly with Kimmel’s own clips on YouTube. One informs, the other risks replacing.

And while linking to ABC or YouTube is a courtesy, just as crediting them in the video itself might be, it does not replace the traffic (and ad dollars) Kimmel’s team expects. The law does not guarantee creators compensation for commentary, but judges do consider market harm. If your listeners stop watching the original because your show already gave them the “best parts,” you have tilted the scale against yourself. John Oliver is often credited (though no one seems able to find the clip): “People are always going to say stupid things, and you’re always going to be able to make jokes about that, but it should be the last thing you add in, because it is the easiest thing.”

Whether he actually said it or not almost proves the point. Recycling someone else’s words without context is the laziest move in the book. And if you cannot find the source? That is about as meta as fair use gets.

The Takeaway

Here is the smart play: use less and say more. A 20-second clip followed by two minutes of commentary is transformative. A five-minute clip with a shrug and a chuckle is not. Audiences do not tune in to hear Kimmel again. They tune in to hear what you think about Kimmel. The moment you let someone else’s content carry your show, you lose both legal ground and creative authority.

Matthew B. Harrison is a media and intellectual property attorney who advises radio hosts, content creators, and creative entrepreneurs. He has written extensively on fair use, AI law, and the future of digital rights. Reach him at Matthew@HarrisonMediaLaw.com or read more at TALKERS.com.

Industry News

iHeartMedia Enters into Partnership with Hello Divorce

iHeartMedia and Hello Divorce – a comprehensive online divorce platform built for the mass market – announce a partnership. According to a press release, Hello Divorce combines technology and expert guidance to radically simplify the legal, financial, and emotionalimg complexities of divorce – helping people navigate every stage of the process faster, more affordably, and with far less conflict. Hello Divorce says its service “goes far beyond digitizing forms and redesigns the entire divorce experience with proprietary technology and AI to eliminate costly errors, reduce delays, and remove the bottlenecks that wreak havoc on divorce timelines.” iHeartMedia president of corporate development and ventures Joe Robinson says, “Hello Divorce offers a powerful solution for one of life’s most challenging transitions. This partnership gives them a unique opportunity to connect with people nationwide through our platforms, delivering resources and guidance that can truly make a difference.”

Industry News Sarugami

AM Radio Bill Speeds Through Markup in Congress

The House Energy and Commerce Committee advanced the “AM Radio for Every Vehicle Act” during a full committee markup on a 50-1 vote. The bill now goes to the House floor for a vote. Amendments to the bill include a shortening of the sunset of the proposed law from 10 to eight years as well as the bill now directing the Government Accountability Office to study the potential impacts of the requirement on automotive innovation and vehicle safety, as well as the feasibility of alternative emergency alert systems. National Association of Broadcasters notes that public sentiment if behind the bill as a recent survey indicates 83% of respondents strongly support keeping AM radio in new cars so drivers can access free emergency warnings and public safety information while on the road. NAB president and CEO Curtis LeGeyt says, “Today’s decisive committee vote sends a clear message: AM radio remains essential to public safety, and every American deserves access to it in their car. We thank Chairmen Guthrie and Bilirakis, Ranking Member Pallone and members of the committee for overwhelmingly advancing this bipartisan legislation. Policymakers and consumers alike recognize AM radio’s essential role in delivering emergency alerts and reliable information when it matters most. We urge House and Senate leadership to move swiftly to pass this bill and preserve this vital service for the American public.”

Industry Views

SABO SEZ: Keep the Valuables

By Walter Sabo
a.k.a. Walter Sterling, Host
WPHT, Philadelphia, “Walter Sterling Every Damn Night”
TMN syndicated, “Sterling on Sunday”

imgAmazon learned that there are high volume sales for specific categories of products. High demand equals high value to the seller. Items such as diapers, printer ink, staplers, batteries, etc. Being brilliant, Amazon created “Amazon Basics.” Same products, white labeled. Amazon doesn’t manufacture batteries; they just slap their logos on what America needs most.  That’s why Mr. Bezos has a bigger boat than you.

Radio listeners have high demand for basic elements. The demand for these ingredients is often based on need rather than preference. Needed ingredients delivered by radio represent high value to the radio industry:

– Weather reports

– Traffic reports

– Is everything ok? News reports

– News bulletins

– Local news

– Closings

The first sign of trouble was when radio stations chose to promote a cable channel by presenting “Weather Channel Weather.” Tip: research shows the most respected source of weather is the National Weather Service and a station can pull that for free, any time. No disrespect to the Weather Channel but, can’t radio do weather? Giving away that position to TV is foolish.

Weather is even more important than one might think. Yes, a listener can get it from multiple online sources, but the listener is listening to the radio. The listener needs the weather NOW, live, local. Failing to do weather forces the listener to leave you. (That’s why, on the local and national “Sterling” show, we have meteorologist, Dr. Dave Eiser and Brad Your Grandma’s weatherman presenting the weather through the program.)

Do a Google trend search. Compare WEATHER, SEX, JESUS, TRUMP. Weather will win.

TRAFFIC. An argument I lost was with a 50kw station that had the traffic image because they had a traffic copter. To save $200,000 they were going to take it down. I said, “Fire me but don’t take down the copter.” They took it down. The reason to do traffic is not 100% to give traffic reports, it is – more importantly – to prove that the station is live, and to prove the station sees everything. Breaking news will compel listeners to check with the station that can report it from the air, live!

There is no reason to stop doing traffic and weather because an all-news station is doing it. Those are essential must-have elements for all listeners regardless of format. If we want to own the dashboard, it is best to present top-of-mind information to drivers. Live!

FOX News seems to present a “Bulletin” every few minutes… FOX NEWS ALERT. A radio station doesn’t have to follow the AP Style Guide to define “bulletin.” You can air a bulletin or an alert whenever you want. Urgent, compelling, turn up the radio. Pulling the listener in with sounders, big intros, all that stuff claims your position as the source of better-know-it information.

WHAT HAS HAPPENED. By stripping a station of the costs of bulletins, weather, traffic, and local news we have made radio less valuable. Those “costs” were/are investments in content valued by listeners.  Too many stations have trashed essential ingredients for the sake of a false economy. Radio revenues go down each quarter as stations cut costs each quarter.

Walter Sabo has been a C Suite action partner for companies such as SiriusXM, Hearst, Press Broadcasting, Gannett, RKO General and many other leading media outlets. His company HITVIEWS, in 2007, was the first to identify and monetize video influencers.. His nightly show “Walter Sterling Every Damn Night” is heard on WPHT, Philadelphia. His syndicated show, “Sterling On Sunday,” from Talk Media Network, airs 10:00 pm-1:00 am ET, and is now in its 10th year of success. He can be reached by email at sabowalter@gmail.com.

Industry Views

The Opportunity Before Radio: Boldness with Balance

imgIn an opinion piece for TALKERS, radio pro Erik Cudd writes, “In such a time as this, because radio is the medium I know best and love most, I write this appeal to those influential in news/talk. My hope is that you will step forward once again as the architects and innovators you have always been and raise a rallying cry for this unique moment. The freedoms and ambitions that make the format so vital also create challenges. By design, it invites sharp opinions, spirited disagreement, and cultural edge. Those qualities are its strengths. But in our current climate, they also carry the risk of drifting into tribalism and rhetoric that can spill over into something more dangerous. This is not an implication that I believe news/talk is responsible for the death of Charlie Kirk. I would like to be crystal clear. What I am saying is that a perfect storm has been gathering for many years, and no one can deny the polarized, charged landscape we now inhabit. And that storm is not radio’s sole responsibility.” Read Erik Cudd’s entire piece here.

Industry Views

Monday Memo: Stakeholder Whispering

By Holland Cooke
Consultant

imgRadio programmers and sales managers know the drill: The GM drops an idea, a client makes a request, or a listener offers feedback – and the reflex is to jump straight into execution. But what if the real opportunity lies not in what’s asked for, but in what’s actually needed?

That’s the premise of Bill Shander’s new book, Stakeholder Whispering: Uncover What People Need Before Doing What They Ask (Wiley, 2025). Though written for a broad business audience, its lessons resonate in broadcasting, where competing priorities and fast-moving decisions are the norm.

Shander reckons that traditional “stakeholder management” sounds paternal – corralling people to fit our plans. Instead, “stakeholder engagement,” gives them a seat at the table. This “whispering” is a deeper, two-way collaboration where probing questions and active listening uncover hidden needs and surface better solutions.

im

For broadcasters, this can be transformative. Consider sales. If an advertiser wants “a morning drive schedule,” a reflexive seller builds a package and fires back a rate card. But a whisperer pauses and asks: Why morning drive? Who exactly are you trying to reach? What outcome would make this buy successful for you? The conversation shifts from spots and cost to outcomes and value.

Programming is no different. Listeners may say they “want more music” or “less negativity” from talk radio. Whispering means listening past the literal request to the sentiment beneath. Is it about mood, pace, or trust? The host or PD who engages at that level isn’t surrendering control – they’re co-creating an experience listeners feel invested in.

The book also emphasizes “loss aversion” – the tendency to resist change for fear of losing control. Whispering reduces defensiveness by letting stakeholders feel ownership of solutions. In a station environment, that might mean involving talent in shaping format tweaks, or framing sales proposals as shared discoveries rather than dictates.

Stakeholder whispering is a reminder to slow down, listen more deeply, and help others articulate what they really need. For radio, it may be the difference between just checking a box and creating lasting value on both sides of the mic.

Holland Cooke (HollandCooke.com) is a media consultant working at the intersection of broadcasting and the Internet. Follow HC on Twitter @HollandCooke

Industry News

“The Fan” and Jomboy Media Partner for Yankees Show

imgAudacy’s WFAN, New York enters into a strategic partnership with creator-led digital sports media company Jomboy Media to air the “Talkin’ Yanks” show each Saturday at 2:00 pm ET. Audacy chief business officerand New York market president Chris Oliviero says, “WFAN and Jomboy Media both are committed to bringing Yankees fans the most relevant and engaging content of their favorite team whenever and wherever they want to consume it. Together, the combined influence and reach of both brands will elevate the experience for the pinstripe faithful and shine an even greater spotlight on New York’s all-time pastime, baseball.”

Industry Views

The Opportunity Before Radio: Boldness with Balance

By Erik Cudd

imgFrom my teenage years to today, radio has been the career of my adult life. When I first began listening in my teens, I was drawn less to the music and more to the conversation. I tuned into stations not for my favorite songs, but because I enjoyed hearing people talk, debate, and share ideas. Over my lifetime, I have seen many changes in the medium. The news/talk format, in particular, has always fascinated me for its mix of news, commentary, and immediacy.

In such a time as this, because radio is the medium I know best and love most, I write this appeal to those influential in news/talk. My hope is that you will step forward once again as the architects and innovators you have always been, and raise a rallying cry for this unique moment. The freedoms and ambitions that make the format so vital also create challenges. By design, it invites sharp opinions, spirited disagreement, and cultural edge. Those qualities are its strengths. But in our current climate, they also carry the risk of drifting into tribalism and rhetoric that can spill over into something more dangerous.

This is not an implication that I believe news/talk is responsible for the death of Charlie Kirk. I would like to be crystal clear. What I am saying is that a perfect storm has been gathering for many years, and no one can deny the polarized, charged landscape we now inhabit. And that storm is not radio’s sole responsibility. Television, social media, and digital platforms have found their profit margins in spaces that thrive on provocation. Cable news leans on conflict. Social media algorithms reward outrage. Digital outlets chase clicks and controversy. Radio is part of this broader ecosystem, not apart from it. And while no single medium created our current atmosphere, each has a role to play in reflecting on its impact and considering how best to move forward.

This is not about drawing a simple line between “toxic” and “non-toxic” content. Such judgments are rarely clear, and program directors deserve the benefit of the doubt. Yet it may be worth asking whether radio, like all media, could benefit from a renewed look at how editorial choices can help keep conversations as civil and constructive as possible. Debate and controversy will always be part of the medium, but escalation does not need to be the only outcome.

The September 10 tragedy underscored this in more ways than one. Beyond the event itself, the aftermath played out across digital spaces, where ordinary citizens made comments that, while protected speech, resulted in lost jobs, reputational damage, and news coverage. The lesson is not that speech should be curtailed, but that our civic discourse is increasingly fragile. And because radio is one of the most intimate and influential media, its choices ripple outward into that discourse in profound ways.

Audiences are noticing. As someone in my early 50s, squarely within talk radio’s target demographic, I should be a loyal listener. Yet I find myself tuning in less often, not from a lack of loyalty, but because I long to hear more voices who can thoughtfully engage both sides of an issue, giving each perspective a fair hearing and treating every listener as though their view matters. That is why I believe there may be room to pull back a bit, to allow for more variety, nuance, and genuine curiosity in how issues are approached.

Serious does not mean boring. Civility does not mean dull. Across platforms, authenticity and curiosity consistently earn audiences. Podcasts like SmartLess and Armchair Expert succeed not by stoking outrage but by elevating storytelling and connection. Public affairs series such as Frontline and American Experience continue to attract loyal audiences through rigorous, measured reporting. Nonfiction authors like Malcolm Gladwell and Brené Brown demonstrate that thoughtful exploration can reach mass audiences. These examples are proof that depth and balance can succeed when executed with energy and creativity.

Radio is uniquely positioned to do the same. The path forward is not retreat from controversy but innovation. Maybe it begins by encouraging new hosts who bring curiosity, empathy, and an equal openness to both sides of an issue, alongside conviction. It could include piloting alternative formats in off-peak slots where experimentation can thrive. It will require recalibrating success metrics to value loyalty, digital engagement, and cross-platform trust, not just short-term spikes. And it may also mean weaving national voices together with local conversations so that stations strengthen both their reach and their roots.

I do not write this from a high perch. I write as a member of the audience who also walked the halls of the station and still believes in the power of the medium. My words are not meant as accusation but as an open hand in friendship. What I am asking is simple: perhaps it is time for a more purposeful, deliberate engagement of conversation in the conference room. To sit together and ask if everything that airs is doing what it should. To take a long, hard look at whether anything might need to be discussed, reconsidered, or rebalanced in light of what we have all just witnessed.

Radio, because of its intimacy and reach, is uniquely positioned to lead by example. By being more proactive in its own yard, radio could encourage the same self-reflection across media, and even among the public itself. That is not retreat. That is leadership.

Radio still matters. Its intimacy can at times divide, but it can also renew. The question is not whether talk radio will remain bold, it always will, but whether it can channel that boldness in a way that builds the public square rather than fractures it.

The opportunity is here: to prove that freedom and responsibility can coexist, and that doing so is good for the culture, and good for the business.

Erik Cudd has worked in radio and media since 1991. He can be emailed at erik@cudd.us. 

Industry News

Bruce DuMont Dies at 81

imgBruce DuMont, the Illinois broadcaster and founder of the Museum of Broadcast Communications, has died at age 81. CBS News reports he passed away on Wednesday (9/10). DuMont worked in both television and radio during as career, including as the original producer of the WGN radio show “Extension 720” beginning in 1968. Later he created the political radio program Beyond the Beltway that was syndicated across the country for years. DuMont set about his goal developing the Museum of Broadcast Communications in 1982 and saw his dream realized when the museum opened in 1987 in Chicago. See the CBS News story here.

Industry News

BFoA Holds Annual Celebrity Golf Tourney

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The Broadcasters Foundation of America held its 2025 Celebrity Golf Tournament earlier this week, raising much-needed funds that will go to helping anyone in broadcasting who has been impacted by critical illness or disaster and who qualifies for aid. BFoA says broadcasters from CBS/Paramount, Audacy, Gabelli Investments, Katz, Good Karma, NBC, Fox, Disney, and more rallied in support of the BFOA’s mission. The event was held at the Arcola Country Club in Paramus, New Jersey. For information about the Broadcasters Foundation, including how to make a donation or apply for aid, please visit www.broadcastersfoundation.org, or contact the BFOA at 212-373-8250, or info@thebfoa.org.

Industry News

Salem Brings Australian Erin Molan to Podcast Network

imgSalem Media Group recruits Australian media personality Erin Molan to host an eponymous podcast for the Salem Podcast Network. Molan says, “The American market has always felt like such a natural fit. The focus on my former show on Sky News Australia was always more heavily skewed towards foreign affairs, U.S. politics, national security, and COMMON SENSE! When clips started to go viral in the United States, I figured there was an appetite there for what I had to say!” Salem SVP spoken word Phil Boyce comments, “I really believe Erin Molan is the ‘thunder from down under.’ She is fighting hard for the right side in Australia, and now we are helping her make her case to the U.S. and beyond. She is a strong advocate for Israel and against anti-Semitic rhetoric, so I can’t wait to hear her get started.”

Industry Views

Monday Memo: Water You Known For?

By Holland Cooke
Consultant

imgMy kitchen faucet wouldn’t shut off. It died, of old age. Things start doing that when your “new” house turns 25.

With replacement hardware inbound from – where else? – Amazon, we’re coping, filling pitchers in the first-floor loo. Yet, days later, we still reach for the broken kitchen faucet, force-of-habit.

WHAT IF someone pushes your station’s button, or goes to download your podcast, and nothing comes out?im

What are you known-for? What would be missed if you weren’t still doing it?

Explain that-you-do what-you-do-well, things listeners thirst for, especially things they can only get from you. And make every effort to deliver.

Holland Cooke (HollandCooke.com) is a media consultant working at the intersection of broadcasting and the Internet. Follow HC on Twitter @HollandCooke

Industry News

Brother Wease Out as iHeartMedia Flips WAIO-FM, Rochester to Rock

imgAfter 40 years on the air in the Rochester market, legendary radio personality Brother Wease is exiting iHeartMedia’s talk WAIO-FM where he’s been hosting the late morning show for the past two years (he’d been hosting the morning drive show there since November of 2008). According to the Democrat & Chronicle, Brother Wease told his audience that the company is flipping the talk station to rock and he, along with air personality Deanna King, are being let go. Brother Wease launched his on-air career on rock WCMF in 1984 in overnights and moved to morning drive in 1985. The show took off and became a highly successful one in the market for years. He left WCMF in late 2007 after contract talks with then-Entercom broke down and resurfaced on WAIO. Read the Democrat & Chronicle story here.

Industry News

Buck Sexton Sues Real Estate Investment Trust

imgAccording to a report in Barron’s, Premiere Networks talk host Buck Sexton filing a federal lawsuit against RAD Diversified REIT, alleging they defrauded him of more than $100,000. In the complaint, Sexton alleges that RAD founders Dutch Mendenhall and Amy Vaughn solicited cash from him for investment coaching for property deals, neither of which ever happened. The story notes that this suit comes just weeks after Florida’s attorney general announced a probe into RAD saying the firm “appears to be a Ponzi scheme.” Sexton’s attorney writes in the complaint, “Despite being an experienced real estate investor, Mr. Sexton was taken in by the documents and investment returns touted by Mendenhall and his representatives. The defendants’ grand promises of sweeping returns never materialized.” See the Barron’s story here.

Industry News

Top News/Talk Media Stories This Past Week (September 1-5, 2025)

Here are the most talked about stories of the past week (9/1-5) on news/talk radio and related talk media according to TALKERS:

Stories

1. Trump Challenges Tariff Ruling
2. Judge Backs Harvard in Grants Case
3. Guard Troops in DC / Other Cities Protest
4. Epstein-Maxwell Victims Testify
5. Trump’s Health
6. Florida Ends Kids Vaccine Requirements
7. The Economy / Fed Policy
8. China Military Parade / Russia-China-India Economic Talks
9. RFK Jr Testimony
10.Russia-Ukraine War

People

1. Donald Trump
2. James Comer
3. Jeffrey Epstein-Ghislaine Maxwell
4. Muriel Bowser
5. Allison D. Burroughs
6. Karoline Leavitt
7. Gavin Newsom
8. Ron DeSantis
9. Xi Jinping / Vladimir Putin / Narendra Modi
10.RFK Jr.

To see the full TALKERS Stories, Topics, and People Charts, please click HERE.

Industry News

Stephen A. Smith Taking on Politics and Current Events

Outspoken sports media personality Stephen A. Smith is stepping outside of the sports-only content as part of his new deal with SiriusXM. As announced earlier this summer, Smith is joining the satcaster’s Mad Dogimg Sports Radio channel for a daily sports show that airs live at 1:00 pm ET. In addition to that, Smith is debuting his politics and culture show called, “Straight Shooter with Stephen A. Smith,” that will debut September 17 on SiriusXM’s P.O.T.U.S. channel, airing live at 6:00 pm each Wednesday. “Straight Shooter” is also being made available as a podcast the next day. Smith says, “I’ve spent my career speaking my mind, asking tough questions, and zeroing in on the issues that matter most. Whether it’s my new sports show on Mad Dog Sports Radio or talking politics on P.O.T.U.S., I’m here to challenge, entertain, and engage SiriusXM listeners.”

Industry News

TALKERS News Notes

Schrager Launches Football Podcast. ESPN and Omaha Productions announce that ESPN NFL analyst Peter Schrager is debuting, “The Schrager Hour,” a Wedsnesday show in which Schrager “dives into key storylines and match-ups around the league, taking you behind the scenes of Monday Night Football and recapping his week on the road covering the NFL.” In addition, Schrager will be on the sidelines of Monday Night Football alongside Katie George and will appear regularly across ESPN’s studio programming, including frequent appearances on “Get Up,” “First Take,” “The Pat McAfee Show,” “NFL Live” and “SportsCenter.”

Browns Extend Partnership with Audacy and Good Karma Brands. The Cleveland Browns announced a multi-year agreement with Audacy and Good Karma Brands, reaffirming the stations’ continued roles as the team’s official flagship radio partners for the University Hospitals Browns Radio Network. ESPN Cleveland market manager Tom Olson says, “We’re thrilled to continue our partnership with the Cleveland Browns. This renewal not only extends our tradition of delivering the excitement of Browns content to our fans, but also opens new opportunities to integrate our local partners directly into the fabric of the play-by-play broadcast.”

Industry Views

Fair Use in 2025: The Courts Draw New Lines

By Matthew B. Harrison
TALKERSVP/Associate Publisher
Harrison Media Law, Senior Partner
Goodphone Communications, Executive Producer

imgImagine an AI trained on millions of books – and a federal judge saying that’s fair use. That’s exactly what happened this summer in Bartz v. Anthropic, a case now shaping how creators, publishers, and tech giants fight over the limits of copyright.

Judges in California have sent a strong signal: training large language models (LLMs) on copyrighted works can qualify as fair use if the material is lawfully obtained. In Bartz, Judge William Alsup compared Anthropic’s use of purchased books to an author learning from past works. That kind of transformation, he said, doesn’t substitute for the original.

But Alsup drew a hard line against piracy. If a dataset includes books from unauthorized “shadow libraries,” the fair use defense disappears. Those claims are still heading to trial in December, underscoring that source matters just as much as purpose.

Two days later, Judge Vince Chhabria reached a similar conclusion in Kadrey v. Meta. He called Meta’s training “highly transformative,” but dismissed the lawsuit because the authors failed to show real market harm. Together, the rulings show that transformation is a strong shield, but it isn’t absolute. Market evidence and lawful acquisition remain decisive.

AI training fights aren’t limited to novelists. The New York Times v. OpenAI case is pressing forward after a judge refused to dismiss claims that OpenAI and Microsoft undermined the paper’s market by absorbing its reporting into AI products. And in Hollywood, Disney and Universal are suing Midjourney, alleging its system lets users generate characters like Spider-Man or Shrek – raising the unsettled question of whether AI outputs themselves can infringe.

The lesson is straightforward: fair use is evolving, but not limitless. Courts are leaning toward protecting transformative uses of content—particularly when it’s lawfully sourced – but remain wary of piracy and economic harm.

That means media professionals can’t assume that sharing content online makes it free for training. Courts consistently recognize that free journalism, interviews, and broadcasts still carry market value through advertising, sponsorship, and brand equity. If AI systems cut into those markets, the fair use defense weakens.

For now, creators should watch the December Anthropic trial and the Midjourney litigation closely. The courts have blessed AI’s right to learn – but they haven’t yet decided how far those lessons can travel once the outputs begin to look and feel like the originals.

Matthew B. Harrison is a media and intellectual property attorney who advises radio hosts, content creators, and creative entrepreneurs. He has written extensively on fair use, AI law, and the future of digital rights. Reach him at Matthew@HarrisonMediaLaw.com

Industry Views

When “Sharing” Becomes Stealing: TALKERS’ 90-Second Lesson in Fair Use

By Matthew B. Harrison

TALKERS, VP/Associate Publisher
Harrison Media Law, Senior Partner
Goodphone Communications, Executive Producer

imgNinety seconds. That’s all it took. One of the interviews on the TALKERS Media Channel – shot, edited, and published by us – appeared elsewhere online, chopped into jumpy cuts, overlaid with AI-generated video game clips, and slapped with a clickbait title. The credit? A link. The essence of the interview? Repurposed for someone else’s traffic.

TALKERS owns the copyright. Taking 90 seconds of continuous audio and re-editing it is infringement.

Could they argue fair use? Maybe, but the factors cut against them:

  • Purpose: Clickbait, not commentary or parody.
  • Nature: Original journalism leans protective.
  • Amount: Ninety seconds may be the “heart” of the work.
  • Market Effect: If reposts draw views, ad revenue, or SEO, that’s harm.

And here’s the key point: posting free content doesn’t erase its market value. Free journalism still generates reputation, sponsorships, and ad dollars. Courts consistently reject the idea that “free” means “up for grabs.”

Enforcement options exist. A DMCA notice can clear a repost quickly. Repeat offenders risk bans. On-screen branding makes copying obvious, and licenses can set terms like “share with credit, no remix.”

But here’s the hard truth: a takedown won’t stop the AI problem. Once a clip circulates, it’s scraped into datasets training text-to-video and voice models. Deleting the repost doesn’t erase cached or mirrored copies. Think of it like pouring a glass of water into the ocean – you can’t get it back. And to make matters worse, enforcement doesn’t stop at U.S. borders. Different countries have different copyright rules, making “justice” slow, uneven, and rarely satisfying.

That TALKERS interview may now live inside billions of fragments teaching machines how people speak. You can win the takedown battle and still lose the training war. Courts are only starting to address whether scraping is infringement. For now, once it’s ingested, it’s permanent.

Creators face a constant tension: content must spread to grow, but unchecked sharing erodes control. The challenge in 2025 is drawing that line before your work becomes someone else’s “content.”

The law is still on your side – but vigilance matters. Use takedowns when necessary. Brand so the source is clear. Define sharing terms up front. And remember: free doesn’t mean worthless.

The real question isn’t just “Is it fair use?” It’s “Who controls the story?”

Matthew B. Harrison is a media and intellectual property attorney who advises radio hosts, content creators, and creative entrepreneurs. He has written extensively on fair use, AI law, and the future of digital rights. Reach him at Matthew@HarrisonMediaLaw.com

Industry News

MIW/NAB’s “LAUNCH” Mentorship Program Underway

Mentoring and Inspiring Women in Radio and the National Association of Broadcasters Leadership Foundation announce the opening of the submission window for the 2025 LAUNCH Mentorship Program. The organizations say, “LAUNCH is a groundbreaking initiative developed to champion and cultivate emerging female talent in radio, with a specific focus on careers in engineering, audio production, andimg technical operations. This one-of-a-kind, year-long mentorship pairs a rising professional with a seasoned industry leader to provide one-on-one coaching and deep exposure to the technical side of the broadcast industry.” The selected mentee will gain hands-on insight into critical areas including FCC compliance, RF systems, EAS, IP-based broadcast systems, automation, and network operations. The program also explores key aspects of IT, remote broadcasting, digital audio, streaming, and systems integration, equipping participants with both the knowledge and connections to lead confidently in the evolving audio landscape. In addition, the chosen mentee will attend the 2026 NAB Show in Las Vegas. MIW Board President Sheila Kirby says, “The LAUNCH program is a cornerstone of MIW’s mission to open doors for women in every corner of broadcasting. By focusing on engineering and technical operations, we’re not only providing critical skills and mentorship, but also ensuring that women have a strong voice in shaping the future of our industry. We are deeply grateful to Mr. Master, Premiere Networks, and of course the NAB Leadership Foundation for their support in helping us prepare the next generation of broadcast leaders.”

Industry News

Good Karma Names Lam “ESPN LA” Market Manager

Good Karma Brands promotes Tommy Lam to market manager for KSPN-AM “ESPN Los Angeles.” Lam previously served as general sales manager and senior director of marketing. Good Kama SVP Sam Pinesimg says, “Tommy’s deep roots in the Los Angeles media landscape, combined with his passion for building brands and connecting with the community, make him the ideal leader for ‘ESPN LA.’ He has excelled at leading teammates across sales, marketing, and support, serving as a strong conduit between those areas and the content team. His proven track record of innovation and results will continue to elevate the brand’s reach and impact with fans and partners.” Lam comments, “I am honored to take on this role and continue building on ESPN LA’s momentum. Los Angeles is one of the most dynamic sports markets in the world, and I’m excited to work with our talent team to deliver outstanding experiences for our fans, partners and teammates.”

Industry Views

The Annual (Radio Station) Physical

By Jonathan Little
TroyResearch
President

imgAn annual physical is a wise idea. Doc asks, “How are you doing?”. Then he or she asks some detailed questions based on your medical history. Then “how have you been feeling? Any issues?” Doc always orders blood draws to see what might be lurking. Is the statin drug keeping your cholesterol in check? Are you getting plenty of exercise, plenty of sleep? How’s your diet? Over the years, I’ve visited about my health with at least a dozen different doctors. I’m convinced that the good ones always ask good questions and then listen carefully. Good questioner – good listener. That’s the doc I can respect and put my trust in. 

If you operate a radio station, your station could benefit from an annual physical. You already know how it’s doing based on ratings, revenue, and profit. Your listeners know how you’re doing for them personally because they’re the users of your radio product. Is it pleasing, challenging, inspiring or annoying, irritating, and easily ignored with a click? If you ask them, they’ll tell you. You should ask them at least once a year. 

TroyResearch has been in the business of asking listeners what they think for 27 years. We recently teamed up with Midwest Communications, Inc., in Green Bay to conduct an exploratory research project with their news/talk station WTAQ. TroyResearch’s association with MCI goes back nearly 27 years, doing music and perceptual research for the Duke Wright music stations. The WTAQ project was something new. Our goal was to discover what actionable data the opinions of loyal listeners might produce. TroyResearch worked with VP Programming Jeff McCarthy and Operations Manager Jason Hillery to develop a 25-question study. 

Survey respondents were recruited over the air and were encouraged to go to the WTAQ website to take a brief survey. Clearly, we wanted to hear from P1’s, those listeners who produce 60%+ of reported listening. Their answers provided a clear picture of WTAQ loyalists – what they like, what they don’t like, their political affiliation, their listening behaviors (radio, podcasts, TV news, cable news, etc.), favorite news outlets, trustworthiness of news outlets, their thoughts about protests becoming riots, and their favorite podcasts to mention a few. 

More than 200 respondents, Persons 18+, completed the WTAQ perceptual study. (32% 18-54, 68% 55+). With Jeff’s and Jason’s permission, we share some results. 

Political Affiliation

1% Democrat
78% Republican
15% Independent
6% Other, like Libertarian, Socialist

In car listening

80% Local radio
10% Satellite radio
6% Streaming services like Spotify
3% Podcasts
1% Other like personal playlists 

Listening to WTAQ, which simulcasts

76% FM
9% AM
8% Streaming from WTAQ app
6% Streaming from a smart device
1% Streaming from WTAQ.com

Where do you get your news? (Select all that apply)

93% Radio
46% Broadcast TV (local channels)
41% Cable news like Fox, CNN, MSNBC
29% Social Media like X, Facebook, Tiktok
16% Internet news like NY Post, Washington Post
10% Newspaper
12% Other 

Your primary news source

58% Radio
15% Cable news like Fox, CNN, MSNBC
8% Broadcast TV (local channels)
7% Internet news like NY Post, Washington Post
7% Social Media like X, Facebook, Tiktok
3% Other
1% Newspaper

When does a protest/demonstration become a riot? (Select all that apply)

85%+ When protesters strike police, throw projectiles, set fires, do property damage
75% When protesters spit on police officers
60% When protesters burn the American flag
37% When protesters curse at police officers

Do you listen to podcasts?

23% Frequently
29% Occasionally
35% Rarely
13% Never

What podcast platform do you use? (Select all that apply)

32% YouTube
25% Spotify
19% iHeart
19% Apple
10% Amazon
2% Rumble
1% The Blaze
1% Daily Wire 

As a broadcaster that reports news and information, WTAQ is interested in knowing how trustworthy you consider the reporting presented by these companies. (1 = very untrustworthy, 5 = very trustworthy)

4.43 WTAQ Radio, Green Bay
3.78 Fox News
3.59 Fox 11, Green Bay
2.92 WBAY, Channel 2, Green Bay
2.83 WFRV, Channel 5, Green Bay
2.77 WHBY Radio, Appleton
2.71 NBC 26, Green Bay
2.22 Green Bay Press Gazette
2.01 Wisconsin State Journal
1.99 Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
1.46 MSNBC
1.37 CNN 

WTAQ asked the 0-10 Customer Endorsement Score question – “On a scale of 0-10 how likely would you be to recommend WTAQ to a friend or colleague?” Those scores reflect the listeners’ opinions of how the station is doing and it’s a forecast of WTAQ’s future. As a rule, a CES of 50 or higher indicates a healthy and sustainable product. WTAQ scored a strong 73 Customer Endorsement Score. 

VP Jeff McCarthy and OM Jason Hillery are pleased with the results of this exploratory study. The WTAQ Sales Team is delighted with the data. 

Good questioner … Good listener! WTAQ asked good questions. And now their leadership team is “listening” to the answers and determining what adjustments, if any, may result in improved ratings, revenue, and profit, on the way to an 80 Customer Endorsement Score with the next WTAQ study. 

Jonathan Little is president of TroyResearch. He can be phoned at 608-219-1077 or emailed via: jlittle@troyresearch.net

Industry News

NPR Remains Atop Triton Digital Podcast Ranker

Triton Digital publishes its July 2025 U.S. podcast ranker based on weekly average downloads for publishers who opt in and NPR’s “NPR New Now” and “Up First” stay in the #1 and #2 spots, respectively.img Salem Podcast Network’s “The Charlie Kirk Show” remains ranked #5 while Cumulus Podcast Network’s “Shawn Ryan Show” rises one place to #6. Other talk radio related shows of note include: Cumulus Podcast Network’s “VINCE” dipping three places to #13; iHeart Audience Network’s “Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Show” rising two places to # 14; and Cumulus Podcast Network’s “Mark Levin Show” falling six places to #35. See the complete ranker here.

Industry News

KSPN-AM, Los Angeles Extends Rams Coverage

Good Karma Brands’ KSPN-AM “ESPN Los Angeles” extends its partnership with the NFL’s Los Angeleskspn am Rams. ESPN LA VP and market manager Sam Pines says, “The Los Angeles Rams are one of the most exciting and dynamic franchises in the NFL, and we are proud to be their partner and the radio home. This partnership allows us to deliver unmatched access, exclusive content, and the passionate game-day energy Rams fans deserve on the radio, online, on our app, and everywhere else they connect with us and our talent.”

Industry News

Top News/Talk Media Stories This Past Week (August 11-15, 2025)

Here are the most talked about stories of the past week (8/11-15) on news/talk radio and related talk media according to TALKERS:

Stories

1. Trump-Putin Summit / Russia Ukraine War
2. Trump Tariffs / Economy / Social Security
3. Texas Redistricting Battle
4. Israel-Gaza War
5. The Epstein Files
6. National Guard in Washington, DC
7. ICE Raids
8. DOJ’s Trump-Russia Investigation
9. Artificial Intelligence
10.Trump Lincoln Center Plans / Melania to Sue Hunter Biden

People

1. Donald Trump
2. Vladimir Putin / Volodymyr Zelenskyy
3. Benjamin Netanyahu
4. Jeffrey Epstein / Ghislaine Maxwell
5. Greg Abbott
6. Kristi Noem / Pam Bondi
7. Xi Jinping / Narendra Modi
8. Sam Altman / Elon Musk
9. Sylvester Stallone / Gloria Gaynor / KISS
10.Barack Obama / Joe Biden / Melania Trump / Hunter Biden

To see the full TALKERS Stories, Topics, and People Charts, please click HERE.

Industry Views

SABO SEZ: The Future Will Include a Need for Talk Show Hosts

By Walter Sabo
a.k.a. Walter Sterling, Host
WPHT, Philadelphia, “Walter Sterling Every Damn Night”
And TMN syndicated, “Sterling on Sunday”

imgThe problem with technocrats is they believe computer programs and machines solve all problems. A technocrat in charge of a business will it kill it, for sure.  For example, once a movie theatre is automated, not requiring a pesky projectionist or even a snack counter attendant, you and I would still not buy a ticket – unless the theater was showing an actual MOVIE!

A radio company can “invest” in automation systems like Wide-orbit, saving an outrageous 15 bucks an hour for a “board op” or NexGen or NewsBoss. None of those systems win a single Nielsen meter.

The future of the radio medium is determined by its ability to attract an audience. Audience is obviously not built by technology but by compelling hosts. This phenomenon is eternal. For over 100 years, listeners have been attracted by personalities, ideas, information, songs, jokes, passion.

PREDICTION: Tech, AI will not replace any truly talented talk radio host by a mile.

One More Thought: Write a Letter

What can a host do to secure their essential participation beyond prepping a show? Write a letter! My Dad was a retailer who bought a lot of radio time. In his office he had a credenza of awards, family photos, and… framed letters from radio personalities. Spending hours in the car with a radio voice turns that voice into a star. Receiving a letter from a star is a life event. My Dad framed the letters he got from his favorite radio stars who hosted the shows he sponsored.

All the damn spots we air are actually invitations to send fan mail to the advertisers. Cheesy, yes, but the autograph industry is robust. The more ways a host engages with advertisers and listeners (touchpoints), the more secure their job becomes.

Walter Sabo has been a C Suite action partner for companies such as SiriusXM, Hearst, Press Broadcasting, Gannett, RKO General and many other leading media outlets. His company HITVIEWS, in 2007, was the first to identify and monetize video influencers.. His nightly show “Walter Sterling Every Damn Night” is heard on WPHT, Philadelphia. His syndicated show, “Sterling On Sunday,” from Talk Media Network, airs 10:00 pm-1:00 am ET, and is now in its 10th year of success. He can be reached by email at sabowalter@gmail.com.

Industry Views

Monday Memo: Topics That Tune-Them-In

By Holland Cooke
Consultant

imgBaby Boomers (born 1946–1964) are some 20% of the U.S. population, but control more than 50% of all household wealth. They hold $70+ trillion in assets and spend an estimated $548 billion annually. They are lifelong AM/FM listeners, and they’re redefining what life after 60 looks like. Are you into what they’re up to?

Some are having the time of their lives. Others are confronting new realities. All are seeking relevance, respect, and real-world information. Consider these issues for call-in topics and guest interviews and podcasts. Possibly a sponsored series?

Lifestyle & Purpose

— “How to Make Your Bucket List Actually Happen”
— “Finding Purpose Beyond the 9 to 5”
— “Encore Careers That Start with a Volunteer Gig”

Health & Wellness

— “Sleep After 60: What Changes and What Helps”
— “The Foods That Fight Brain Fog”
— “Fitness Without the Injuries: Smarter Workouts After 50”

Financial Confidence

— “How Much is Enough? Retirement Planning Backwards”
— “Social Security Myths That Could Cost You”
— “Turning Your Home into Income” (downsizing, ADUs, Airbnb)
— “Helping Without Hurting: When Adult Kids Need Financial Help”

im

Freedom & Adventure

— “How to Travel More for Less”
— “National Parks Over 60: Hidden Gems and Senior Pass Tips”
— “Cool Day Trips”

Home & Relationships

— “Downsize Without Drama”
— “Living With – or Near – Your Kids: Pros, Cons & Boundaries”
— “Home Safety Upgrades You’ll Be Glad You Made”
— “The Second Time-Around Marriage: Legal & Emotional Realities”
— “Grandparenting Without Overstepping”

Learning & Creativity

— “The Science of Lifelong Learning: Why Your Brain Craves It”
— “It’s Never Too Late to Learn an Instrument (or a Language)”
— “Turning Your Life Story Into a Book – Or a Podcast”
— “Digital Detox: How to Stay Connected Without Feeling Glued”

Holland Cooke (HollandCooke.com) is a media consultant working at the intersection of broadcasting and the Internet. Follow HC on Twitter @HollandCooke

Industry News

Grant Napear Returning to Sacramento Sports Talk

Former KHTK, Sacramento sports talk host and former Sacramento Kings TV broadcaster Grant Napear is returning to Sacramento sports radio to host the 3:00 pm to 6:00 pm show on Lotus Communications’img sports talk KSAC-AM/K284CM, effective September 2. This comes five years after he was fired by Bonneville’s KHTK, Sacramento and the Kings after a social media exchange with former Kings player DeMarcus Cousins about the Black Lives Matter movement and used the phrase, “all lives matter.” Napear sued Bonneville and lost but is currently appealing that ruling. Napear tells the Bee, “It’s going to be the Grant Napear show that people have listened to for decades. I’m competitive. I’m not only coming back to Sacramento. I’m coming back to win.” Read the Sacramento Bee story here.

Industry News

Bonneville Rebrands KTTH as “Seattle Red”

Bonneville announces that news/talk KTTH-AM, Seattle is underscoring its conservative content as it rebrands the station as “Seattle Red.” Bonneville says, “Seattle Red’s identity reflects fresh conservative voices and growing influence in the Pacific Northwest. This transformation marks more than just a nameimg change; it’s the launch of a dynamic new digital platform delivering hard-hitting conservative news, thought provoking opinions, and exclusive investigative reports headlined by Jason Rantz. ‘Seattle Red’ will be the definitive home for conservative content, expanding our reach, sharpening our brand, and doubling down on our mission to challenge the status quo.” It adds, “At the heart of ‘Seattle Red’ is Jason Rantz, whose live and local content brings a distinctly Seattle perspective to issues that matter most.” KTTH program director Jason Antebi says, “Our new identity as Seattle Red introduces a thriving community and home for conservatives in the Pacific Northwest. We’re building a media platform that amplifies bold voices, breaks real news, and isn’t afraid to challenge the narrative.”

Industry Views

They Say YOU Infringed – But Do THEY Own the Rights?

By Matthew B. Harrison
TALKERS, VP/Associate Publisher
Harrison Media Law, Senior Partner
Goodphone Communications, Executive Producer

imgYou did everything right – or so you thought. You used a short clip, added commentary, or reshared something everyone else was already posting. Then one day, a notice shows up in your inbox. A takedown. A demand. A legal-sounding, nasty-toned email claiming copyright infringement, and asking for payment.

You’re confused. You’re cautious. And maybe you’re already reaching for the fair use defense.

But hold on. Before you argue about what you used, ask something simpler: Does the party accusing you actually own the rights?

Two Main Reasons People Send Copyright Notices

1. They believe they’re right – and they want to fix it.  Sometimes the claim is legitimate. A rights-holder sees their content used without permission and takes action. They may send a DMCA takedown, request removal, or ask for a license fee. Whether it’s a clip, an image, or a music bed – the law is on their side if your use wasn’t authorized.
2. They’re casting a wide net – or making a mistake. Other times, you’ve landed in a mass enforcement dragnet. Some companies send thousands of notices hoping a few people will pay – whether or not the claim is strong, or even valid. These are often automated, sometimes sloppy, and occasionally bluffing. The sender may not own the rights. They may not even know if what you used was fair use, public domain, or licensed.

Mistakes happen. Bots misidentify content. Images get flagged that were never protected. Even legitimate copyright holders sometimes act too fast. But once a notice goes out, it can become your problem – unless you respond wisely.

The First Thing to Check Is Ownership

Most creators instinctively argue fair use or say they meant no harm. But those aren’t the first questions a lawyer asks.

The first question is: “Do they have standing to bring the claim?”

In many cases, the answer is unclear or flat-out “no.” Courts have dismissed copyright lawsuits where the claimant couldn’t show ownership or any active licensing interest. If they can’t demonstrate control over the work – and actual market harm – they may not have the right to sue.

What To Do If You Get a Notice

Don’t panic. Not all claims are valid – and not all claimants are in a position to enforce them.
Don’t assume fair use will protect you. It might, but only after ownership is clear.
Don’t engage emotionally. Responding flippantly can escalate things fast.
Do get help early. A media attorney can help you assess whether the claim is real – and whether the sender has any legal ground at all.

Matthew B. Harrison is a media and intellectual property attorney who advises radio hosts, content creators, and creative entrepreneurs. He has written extensively on fair use, AI law, and the future of digital rights. Reach him at Matthew@HarrisonMediaLaw.com or read more at TALKERS.com.

Industry News

Renda to Use Townsquare’s Ignite Digital Advertising Solutions

Townsquare Media announces a digital advertising partnership with Renda Media for the latter to use Townsquare Ignite, its digital advertising solution. Renda operates station is six U.S. markets (Ft.img Myers/Naples; Jacksonville; Pittsburgh; Indiana, PA; Greensburg, PA; and Punxsutawney, PA) that do not overlap with Townsquare’s market footprint. Townsquare Ignite president Todd Lawley states, “We’re excited to partner with Renda Media to bring our market-leading digital advertising solutions to their expansive client base. Our success stems from a deep expertise in leveraging our proprietary in-house programmatic platform and data-driven strategies to deliver measurable value. Through this partnership, we look forward to equipping Renda Media with the tools, insights, and proven strategic approach needed to strengthen their digital capabilities and accelerate client growth.”

Industry News

KNBR’s Greg Papa Steps Away to Battle Cancer

KNBR, San Francisco sports talk personality and San Francisco 49ers radio voice Greg Papa announces he is stepping away from his broadcast duties as he battles a cancer diagnosis. Here’s his message in full:img “Hi, there, everyone – Greg Papa here, host of KNBR The Sports Leader’s “Papa & Silver” and voice of the San Francisco 49ers. I want to share some personal news with Bay Area sports fans and my friends and colleagues. I have been diagnosed with cancer and am currently undergoing treatment. As I fully focus on my treatment and work toward a full recovery, I’m stepping away from my broadcasts but look forward to returning soon. In the meantime, I am handing The Sports Leader broadcast ball to my co-host and friend Greg Silver, and I know he and his guest co-hosts will keep our listeners entertained and informed – and I’ll be among them; I’ll be listening! Thanks to everyone for your prayers and good wishes as I begin this fight. Go Niners!!” Photo: KNBR The Sports Leader