ENOUGH! The Selling Culture Has Failed Radio
By Walter Sabo
Consultant, Sabo Media
A.K.A. Walter Sterling
Radio Host, Sterling On Sunday
Talk Media Network
The creeping culture of sales-determines-all has brought the industry to this moment of despair. The selling culture has failed the medium. It is time to, once again, segregate the sales and programming departments. Take the budgets away from the program directors and inspire them to create exciting UNPREDICTABLE programming.
Earnings calls for most radio companies were held this week. Not pretty. Declarations of the demise of radio are constant, emotional, and desperate. Bleak conditions in the radio industry have occurred before. A review of past crises and how they were overcome is constructive, urgent, and essential.
For example, in 1952, network TV was launched and showed signs of success. NBC, ABC, and CBS moved their money from radio to TV. Longform radio shows were cancelled leaving stations across the country with a problem. At the time, most radio stations were small shops, usually family-owned, therefore the need to add hours of local programming was a financial challenge. The solution was presented by a programmer.
Todd Storz’ family owned stations in Omaha, Kansas City, Minneapolis, New Orleans, St Louis and Oklahoma City. He was young and obsessed with radio. His stations were losing money and the future, without network show blocks, was uncertain. Todd ate at a diner daily and noticed that even after it closed, the waitresses put their own money in the jukebox to hear the same songs they had heard all day. Hit after hit. Todd created a list of the top 40 songs, built a production sound and put it on his Omaha station. The station was #1 overnight. His top 40 format was aired on his owned stations with the same results.
Ruth Meyer was the program director of WMCA, New York where she established the GOOD GUYS dynasty. Before WMCA Ruth was the PD of Storz’s station in Kansas City. I asked her who did what at Storz and she said, “It was all Todd.” Todd was a programmer who never spent a day in sales. Storz’s programming idea changed and, yes, saved the industry.
When Todd died at 38 years of age his father – a businessman – took over the company. After Todd’s death, the stations died too. Why? Storz station manager Deane Johnson explained, “Todd’s death [and the control of the radio stations falling to Todd’s father] brought about a shift from a ‘programming company’ to a ‘money company.’”
Radio’s next challenge was FM. It is a popular myth that the shift from AM listening to FM was driven by the higher quality of the FM signal. FM’s signal had been available since 1948. No one listened.
You don’t go to iMAX to watch the huge, superior white screen. You go to watch a movie on the huge superior white screen. When the FCC mandated an end to AM/FM simulcasts, the general managers had no idea what to do and isn’t it time for golf?
Obsessed, very young radio fanboy programmers such as Michael Harrison and Allen Shaw joined with frustrated senior programmers like B. Mitchel Reed, Scott Muni, Murray the K and Tom Donahue to EXPERIMENT with new programming techniques. They imagined and implemented progressive rock, free-form, album rock. THEN the crowds came to FM to hear exciting UNPREDICTABLE programming.
In 1966, Tom O’Neil, the founder/chairman of RKO General owned many money-losing, major market stations. The solution? Better sellers? Better sales training? A sales master course? No. The answer was Bill Drake. O’Neil hired Bill Drake and allowed him to create exciting UNPREDICABLE programming. Drake’s programming saved many RKO stations and was copied by hundreds of stations across the country. Drake’s programming saved them, too.
ALL of radio’s challenges today can be solved with programming invented by programmers free to program. Enough with “it’s not in the budget.” Enough with “it will bring in money.” Enough with “it’s good for sales.” Enough with talent having to generate half their salary in billing to be retained. Enough!
Unleash today’s program directors to follow their instincts, their facts and no more having to check with corporate. Why? Because checking with corporate hasn’t worked. Checking with corporate stops the flow of ideas, it freezes them in time. Radio is live, in the moment. When radio programming is frozen in time it MUST fail. Give up corporate engagement. Let programmers surprise you.
To quote a mentor, ABC Radio Network’s VP Dick McCauley (a sales guy), “A great salesperson is one who has a great product.” He said it a lot.
Walter Sabo was the youngest executive vice president in the history of NBC. He was the programming consultant to RKO General longer than Bill Drake. According to a Sirius corporate EVP, “Sirius exists because of what Walter Sabo did.” He hosts a Talk Media Network radio show as Walter M. Sterling, “Sterling on Sunday.” Find out more here: www.waltersterlingshow.com Contact him at walter@sabomedia.com or 646.678.1110
is a great opportunity to help lead one of the best newsrooms in the area. I look forward to coaching and training future newsroom leaders and collaborating with our veteran journalists. I am excited to work with this new management team to deliver great local coverage of Washington, DC, and the surrounding communities.” McFarland comes to WTOP from NBC Boston, Telemundo Boston and New England Cable News where he was assistant news director. Nguyen recently served as a multimedia reporter in local markets in Kansas (WIBW-TV) and Illinois (WQAD-TV) as well as having worked at CNN, Radio Free Asia, NHK World and CCTV America in both reporter and assignment editor roles. WTOP director of news and programming Julie Ziegler comments, “I am so excited to have the force of Monique, Giang and Bill behind our daily newsroom operations. Having their combined talents on both the broadcast and digital sides is exactly what we need to meet our daily mission of delivering the most compelling content to our listeners and readers across all platforms.”
HALF of all radio stations in the United States lose money – at least they did back in 1991. The NAB used to put out an annual report revealing how many radio stations were profitable. Usually half the stations in America lost money. Since consolidation, the NAB stopped putting out that report. It is reasonable to believe that far, far fewer stations lose money today. Shared costs, real estate, technical economies due to digital equipment versus analog all indicate that there must be fewer money-losing properties.
10:00 am to 1:00 pm show, filling the role of retired “Ticket” host Norm Hitzges. New to the daily lineup is the 1:00 pm to 3:00 pm duo of Sean Bass and David Mino. Bass has been with “The Ticket” for 22 years, most recently as producer of “The Norm and D Invasion.” Mino has been with the station for 11 years, most recently as producer of “The Hardline” afternoon drive show. Station program director Jeff Catlin comments, “I couldn’t be more excited for the midday makeover on ‘The Ticket.’ Matt, Sean, and Mino have all earned this opportunity. All three guys are well-known and well-liked by our passionate listeners and their ‘Ticket’ teammates. They will fit in well and make this a seamless transition.”
Amazing fact: In ancient times, from 1962-1972, the highest-paid on-air talent in New York City was “an overnight guy.” He was paid salary plus sales response. I’m talking about Long John Nebel on WOR, WNBC, then WMCA. Long John’s live reads moved product because his audience was captive. One-to-one his listeners were attached to their radios in the truck cab, night watchman’s building lobby, parents pacing with their babies, students cramming. His background was not in radio; he was a skilled auctioneer. Obviously, the same listeners exist today – and are anxious for someone to talk to them. Check out this old clip of Nebel in action: 
he plans to retire from the business in four years at the end of 2027. Patrick’s radio program is nationally syndicated via Premiere Networks and is simulcast via YouTube. The former ESPN personality responded to fans who questioned his decision by saying, “This is a young man’s game. I’m the oldest guy doing this. And I enjoy doing it, but by the end of 2027, that’ll be it. You have my word, so plan accordingly.” 
night. But they’re all pretty much just talking to their friends. Ours might be the first ‘professional’ talk show that will take spontaneous video phone calls and only video phone calls from the public.” Peters goes on to say, “When I started this project, I decided I was going to go wherever the prevailing technology took me. Although I’ve hosted several television talk shows in the past, I’m a radio guy at heart. So, we started with a live audio show… but it’s currently way easier to do live video than live audio. So, then it became a radio show with a video feed, and standard phone call-in. But when I realized that we could take video phone calls, I said screw it, let’s get real: it’s a TV show – with the public joining in, on the screen.” Peters’ new program will debut on Rumble, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, Twitch, OnlyFans, Odysee, Telegram & Trovo, and audio-only on Podbean Live.
Whitey Gleason back to Sactown Sports. The credibility that Whitey has with the sports audience in Northern California coupled with Chris’ passion and knowledge of the Sacramento Kings will certainly make this show a perfect fit for our ever-expanding ‘Sactown Sports’ brand.” Gleason most recently served with Audacy’s KGMZ-FM, San Francisco “95.7 The Game,” and prior to that he was part of the “Rise Guys” show on KHTK. Watkins has been with “Sactown Sports” for nine years, most recently as the host of “Chris & Co” and co-host of the “Return of the Roar” podcast. 
brought Carton back to WFAN after he served a year in prison for fraud. He said, “I had a saint in my corner. A gentleman by the name of Chris Oliviero. He has maintained his support of me as a friend and a brother through all the ups and downs of my radio career. When I got myself in trouble, he came and visited me. He told me if I ever got my life back in order and figured out why I made the bad decisions I made, he would be there for me. No guarantees of a job, but that he would never stop being my friend. Having a guy like that as your friend, I’m the luckiest guy in the world. Not only is he my friend, but he paved the way for me to come back to WFAN.” The WFAN website says Carton will continue to do his weekend gambling addiction program, “Hello, My Name is Craig” show that airs on WFAN on Saturday mornings. He added, “WFAN has meant the world to me. If WFAN didn’t give me the opportunity to come back and restart a career, no joke, I’m unemployable… so, walking away from WFAN is not easy. WFAN is my home.”
Podcasting.” The session, sponsored by Our American Stories, was introduced by syndicated talk show host Guy Benson of FOX News Radio (pictured at right) and moderated by talk show host Lisa Wexler of WICC, Bridgeport, CT (pictured above). Panelists (pictured below from left to right) include Steve Goldstein, CEO, Amplifi Media; Gary Krantz, CEO, Krantz Media Group; Greg Stocker, brand manager, WPHT, Philadelphia; Ron Hartenbaum, managing member, WYD Media; and Larry Young, host/producer, “In Conversation with LY” podcast. 
AM. In 1991, he and co-host Guy Junker launched the popular “SportsBeat” program on cable TV. After that show’s eventually demise, the two worked together on Pittsburgh radio on what are now WPGP-AM and WBGG-AM. in addition to a couple of cable TV ventures in which he held reporting and sports talk hosting roles. Savran would also host the postgame show on the Pittsburgh Steelers Radio Network.
community’s access to Michigan’s most influential political, civic, and business newsmakers.” Moving to mornings is current early afternoon host Guy Gordon, who becomes host of “JR Morning” from 6:00 am to 9:00 am. “All Talk” with Tom Jordan and Kevin Dietz airs from 9:00 am to 12:00 noon. Following “Focus” will be the 
newly created “JR Afternoon” show with host Chris Renwick from 2:00pm-4:00pm, followed by “The Mitch Albom Show” from 4:00 pm to 6:00 pm. Additionally, WJR is bringing back “SportsWrap” with host Sean Baligian airing from 6:00 pm to 7:00 pm. Cumulus Detroit VP and market manager Steve Finateri says, “Launching the ‘Focus’ show will give Paul W. Smith the opportunity to expand, on and off the air, his unmatched relationships with Michigan’s most influential newsmakers, for the benefit of our audience and our advertising partners. WJR is ‘The Great Voice of the Great Lakes’ and going 100% local is a big win for all Michiganders who count on WJR to inform and educate us about everything happening here in our state!” WJR program director Mike Wheeler adds, “What a lineup! Each of our talent is a brand unto themselves and have a unique vision and take on the events that shape the news. We are absolutely living up to our claim that WJR is where Michigan comes to talk.”
Ever lost your phone? It’s an instant sick, sinking feeling. It’s quaint to even call it a “phone,” because it’s…everything. Including us. Like the transistor radio Boomers toted in our youth, it’s audio in your pocket.
anchoring and reporting work, Bartlett has also hosted talk shows on the station, including the long-running “WOR Saturday Morning Show.” He comments, “I loved my job and have been fortunate to have been part of this great station for all these years. I could have gone on much longer, but the time had come, where I just needed more free time. Sadly, this is not a job you can do only six months a year. I have been blessed to have had a caring radio ownership, extremely talented co-workers and a very loyal audience.” Bartlett and his wife have relocated to South Carolina where he looks forward to having more time for golf, seeing his grandchildren, and supporting the New York Giants. WOR program director Tom Cuddy says, “It’s rare in this business to encounter as versatile a radio personality as Joe: anchor, news director, and talk show host…not to mention an all-around nice guy. He will be missed not just by our listeners but by our staff.”
When television spiraled into a circus of chair-throwing, hair-pulling, fist-fighting, profanity-yelling, cross-dressing, sex-addicted guests, Jerry Springer was the ultimate ringleader. “The Jerry Springer Show” was so over-the-top when it debuted in September 1991 that security guards stood by on set and the opening featured a parental warning that stated the content may be inappropriate for children. With segments like “Sex Between Family Members” or “Nudists Talk About Why They Expose All,” it gained a reputation for being the most sexually-explicit tabloid program.
Notwithstanding the enormity of accomplishments that enveloped this exceptionally bright and learned broadcaster, Jerry Springer remained as humble and refreshingly an “ah shucks” individual as you’ll ever hope to meet.
Every time I visit a station, I meet with sales, and I leave ’em a thumb drive of “spots that have produced results elsewhere, for businesses just like yours,” magic words on local direct retail sales calls. Help yourself to these, all of which produced results.
Hofstra – the site of our very successful 2022, 2021 and 2016 events – and enjoy the remarkable resources that its Lawrence Herbert School of Communication brings to the table.” As was the case last year, this event will be held in a COVID-19 compliant environment based upon the circumstances at the time of the convention. TALKERS 2023 will boldly address key issues – some existential – facing the talk radio and talk media industries at this dramatically critical juncture of rapidly accelerating technological and societal change as well as identifying the remarkable opportunities inherent in these developments. It will also provide participants with unique and powerful networking opportunities.
It was a cruel trick. Hulu started streaming “For the People” from Shondaland Productions last month and I bit. It is a show about Manhattan, ambition and really well-tailored clothes. Then I looked at the more information tab and discovered that the show was cancelled… in 2018. Crushed. Two seasons on ABC. Cancelled.
Marie Osborne, Tom Jordan, Chris Renwick, Lloyd Jackson, Mitch Albom, Ken Brown, Steve Courtney, Guy Gordon, and Bed & Bread Club founder and Radio Hall of Famer Dick Purtan, broadcasting from The Salvation Army Great Lakes Divisional Headquarters in Southfield. The Bed & Bread Club Radiothon has raised a total of more than $43.1 Million over the life of the radiothon.
broadcasting remotely from a business center in a New Orleans hotel in which two Black people were sitting behind him. Referencing a previous trip to New Orleans in which Felger’s vehicle was stolen, Massarotti asked Felger if the two could hear him and when Felger replied that they couldn’t, he said, “OK, so I would be careful if I were you because the last time you were around a couple of guys like that, they stole your car.” During his apology on Monday, Massarotti said he gets why the joke, intended to be poking fun at Felger, was wrong. “It didn’t come off that way. It came off as something far broader and ignorant, and I’m regretful of that… I sincerely apologize, and I will do my best to make sure it never happens again.”
Weekend ask-the-expert shows can be a powerful marketing tool. 
Surprisingly, my company Sabo Media has bought commercial time on radio stations. It’s a surprise because brands have come to us because the word “media” is in the name. Some brands think Sabo Media is a media buying company. Hysterical.
As The Beatles sang, “It’s been a long, cold, lonely winter.” Baseball – even Spring Training while it’s still chilly in March – says “Here Comes the Sun.” That’s what baseball means… to listeners.
Answer” and hosts the 10:00 am to 12:00 noon talk program on Cumulus Media’s KCMO-AM, Kansas City. He says, “I want to thank the Salem Podcast Network for bringing our podcast into their family of great shows. As a radio guy my entire career, I wasn’t sure how the podcast version would be received when we launched. Our advertising partners who invested in the show early as well as the smartest audience in the digital space have helped our young podcast crest four million downloads, and we’re just getting started!” Salem SVP of spoken word Phil Boyce adds, “Chris Stigall is a special host who has developed a unique relationship with a very loyal audience. We saw this when we brought him over to ‘AM 990 The Answer’ a few years ago, and we know he will have the same reaction from audiences nationwide with his podcast.”
50-year veteran radio broadcaster Brad Hildebrand, owner/operator of KSLQ-FM 104.5 – a St Louis area signal – tells TALKERS he has flipped the hot AC station to an all-podcast format (1/1) operating under the brand name “Podcastrr.” The format consists of an aggregation of already-existing podcasts with the special feature of giving listeners and clients the opportunity to produce, host, launch and promote their own paid podcasts on the platform. Licensed to Washington, MO, KSLQ’s 104.5 signal covers St. Charles County, Franklin County, Warren County, western St. Louis County and northwestern Jefferson County. It streams worldwide at 
Basch has been with the station since joining in 2006 as a reporter, and Aaron started his career with WTOP in 2007. Basch comments, “After years of working as part of WTOP’s wonderful night crew, I am so lucky to get the opportunity to help Washingtonians wake up and get informed every weekday morning. The fact that I’m teaming up with John – a really nice guy whose work I’ve always admired – makes it even more exciting!” Aaron adds, “It’s truly surreal to now be anchoring weekday mornings for the station I grew up listening to. I look forward to spending more mornings with our listeners, bringing them the important news of the day and having some fun along the way.” WTOP director of news and programming Julia Ziegler states, “Michelle and John bring years of experience and incredible news judgment to mornings. They are both so excited to bring their passion for news to morning drive. Our listeners are in good hands with John and Michelle.”
Industry Mourns Jim Bohannon. Veteran talk radio host Jim Bohannon has died at age 78, at the Prisma Health Cottingham Hospice House in South Carolina after losing a hard fought battle with esophageal cancer. He was born January 7, 1944 in Corvallis, OR, where his father was stationed in the U.S. Army during WWII. After the war, the family moved back to their home town to Lebanon, MO, where Jim grew up and graduated from Lebanon High School in 1962. He attended Missouri State University in Springfield, MO, before joining the military. His service in the 
