The Damning Myth of Spoken Word Radio: High Time Spent Listening (TSA) and Low Cume
By Walter Sabo
Consultant, Sabo Media
A.K.A. Walter Sterling
Radio Host, “Sterling On Sunday”
Talk Media Network
Dependency upon a PPM panel to deliver high time spent listening is a bad business model. Would you rather count on one person listening for one hour or four people listening for 15 minutes? Right.
A good music format program director knows exactly how to program talk radio in a PPM environment. Oddly, when a music programmer has the privilege of programming a talk station they seem to forget all of their programming knowledge. Both formats are measured by exactly the same technology and therefore if it “works” in music, it works in talk.
The reason “New Jersey 101.5” quickly became the highest cuming FM talk station in the world – for 20+ years – is because when Bob McAllan, Jay Sorensen, Perry Simon, John Dziuba and I designed it, we had a simple process: Build a music station that takes a lot of phone calls. It was always programmed like a top 40 station and 33 years later it obviously worked.
The reason “Real Radio 104.1 in Orlando” was the only Howard Stern station that did not suffer the expense of having to change format when he was recruited to SiriusXM Satellite Radio was because the station was built as a heavily formatted music station that took a lot of phone calls. Note that Real Radio 104.1 and New Jersey 101.5 both air music non-stop on the weekends for the single purpose of targeting a specific cume demographic. It obviously worked.
What are the key elements of a music format that should be applied to talk in order to build cume?
- Please, god, don’t flag the “breaks.”
- Every show had a specific pace based on topic set up time and call length time which gave the station a consistent rhythm and sound. All day.
- No “records” from home! No personal sound effects, jingles or that crap.
- Constantly sell ahead. No yesterday calls, yesterday references. Sell what’s next.
- Assume every single listener just tuned in. Explain the topic and give the phone number obsessively.
- Listener driven not host driven. Every host is valuable and gifted but if a host makes the mistake of quitting, the interest needs and tastes of the listener are constant and can be reflected by the next host. A constant.
Mickey Luckoff, the brilliant president of KGO, San Francisco for decades explained why he hired most of his hosts from top 40 radio because, “I can teach them TALK but I can’t teach them radio.” BTW yes, even 34-year morning host Jim Dunbar worked at WLS and KQV as a top 40 jock immediately before joining KGO to host a talk show.
Walter Sabo was a pioneer in the concept of targeted talk which allows a station to precisely reach a chosen demographic. He has had a robust list of consulting clients including, SiriusXM Satellite Radio, Conde Naste, CBS, Press Broadcasting, RKO General, Hearst, Fred Silverman Productions, and many more. His company HITVIEWS was the first major player to recognize and monetize online video stars known as “influencers.” He is on the nominating board of the Radio Hall of Fame. Reach him at 646.678.1110 or walter@sabomedia.com. Discover Sabo’s network radio show here: waltersterlingshow.com.
airing the program yesterday (9/11) and WVON starts on October 2. Additional networks and stations picking up the “Tavis Smiley” show this month include the “We Believe Radio” network in Mississippi and its affiliates. Smiley says, “In little more than a month, our radio show is now heard in three of the nation’s top five markets. We’re excited that more of America now has access to our innovative and empowering programming with groundbreaking and exclusive conversations. Our rapid expansion is filling a void for African American and progressive listeners in a growing number of markets throughout the United States during this critical presidential election season.” WURD Radio CEO Sara M. Lomax comments, 
“WURD Radio is excited to bring the ‘Tavis Smiley’ show to our listeners in Philadelphia and beyond. Tavis brings a powerful mix of dynamic interviews, pointed social and political commentary and a roster of A-list guests. He is a welcome addition to WURD’s lineup of progressive Black talk programming. Our listeners will be informed, entertained and enlightened by the insightful conversations with notable and influential figures Tavis hosts on his program every day.” WVON chief Melody Spann Cooper says, “We’re excited about Tavis’ return to Chicago radio. He has had a long association with WVON. His show is a perfect fit to offer a national perspective on Black America.” Tavis Smiley recently received the coveted “Freedom of Speech Award” at the Talkers 2023 conference held on June 2, 2023.
Giordano, heard daily 12:00 noon to 3:00 pm, is considered “The Dean of Philadelphia Talk Radio.” He is a former teacher and longtime education analyst. The special program, which aired on 8/31 at 9:00 pm emphasized the importance of parental rights and featured noted psychiatrist Renee S. Kohanski M.D. who gave specific guidance on how parents could direct their kids to realize they could come to them with anything that happened in school. Riley Gaines joined to talk about gender issues, particularly in female sports and Kirk Cameron came aboard to discuss getting books that celebrate traditional values back in libraries. Giordano tells TALKERS, “The show showcases the cutting-edge educational issues we face as a country and offers solutions both short and long term.” On his regularly scheduled show today (9/12), Giordano will be interviewing 13-year-old singing/recording rising star Stella Mabry about her song “Mean Girl” which she wrote at the age of 10 to express her experience being bullied in school. Bullying continues to be a growing problem in American education.
me that they intend to be the most conservative radio station in America. I just didn’t fit the bill anymore.” Although Howell doesn’t profess to be conservative or liberal, he’s been a talk host for years (in addition to his work at country outlet WUSN-FM), not only with WLS-AM but with Salem Media Group’s crosstown conservative news/talk WIND-AM. However, he’s made no bones about his contempt for former President Donald Trump. He laments to Axios, “Nobody broadcasts anymore. Everybody narrowcasts.” WLS-AM has not revealed its permanent plans for the afternoon drive daypart other than to slide the syndicated Mark Levin program into the 5:00 pm to 8:00 pm slot. 
The message, “In an ordinary instant – cancer has taken LARadio.com,” is posted on the publication’s site – a reference to the writings of author Joan Didion. Barrett was profiled by the LA Daily News last month after he was diagnosed with advanced liver cancer. 
If you are a seller in the terrestrial radio business, please listen carefully. That faint voice you hear could be the Fat Lady warming up – old Brunhilde ready to wrap it up and put an end to that long, sad Wagnerian opera, known as traditional, transactional radio sales.
Many news/talk stations broker weekend hours to professionals who host ask-the-expert shows to attract new clients.
The fourth of four rounds of ratings data from Nielsen Audio’s August 2023 PPM survey has been released for 12 markets including Austin, Raleigh, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Nashville, Providence, Norfolk, Jacksonville, West Palm Beach, Greensboro, Memphis, and Hartford. Nielsen’s August 2023 sweep covered July 20 – August 16. Today, TALKERS magazine managing editor Mike Kinosian presents his Ratings Takeaways from this group of markets. In Milwaukee iHeartMedia news/talk WISN adds a full share for a 10.7 share (weekly, 6+ AQH share) finish and the #1 rank, while Good Karma Brands crosstown news/talk WTMJ rises eight-tenths to finish with an 8.7 share lifting it to the #3 rank. In Providence, Cumulus Media news/talk WPRO-AM/WEAN-FM adds six-tenths to wrap the survey with a 6.8 share good for the #5 rank, while iHeartMedia’s crosstown news/talk WHJJ rises two-tenths for a 0.4 share and the #18 rank. In West Palm Beach, iHeartMedia talk WZZR-FM dips one-tenth for a 1.8 share but rises to the #10 rank, while Hubbard Broadcasting’s crosstown news/talk WFTL, rises three-tenths for a 1.6 share finish that lifts it to the #12 rank. 
remained at #9, Cumulus Podcast Network’s “The Dan Bongino Show” rose one spot to #11, and FOX Audio Network’s “FOX News Hourly Update” fell one spot to #16. Other data from Podtrac from this report includes: 1) U.S. unique monthly audience increased for all but one of the Top 20 publishers in August 2023 over July 2023; 2) The average U.S. unique monthly audience for the Top 20 publishers was up 13% month-over-month and down 3% over July 2022; 3) Total global downloads for the Top 20 publishers were up 7% month-over-month and flat year-over-year; and 4) The combined audience for the Top Sales Networks was up 15% month-over-month.
Philadelphia. Newsmax EVP of programming Elliot Jacobson states, “Growing up in a small Pennsylvania town next to a family-owned farm to covering big stories in some of the nation’s largest cities, Bob has developed a reporter’s instinct about the news that’s important to Americans.” Brooks comments, “I am glad to go national on a network like Newsmax, with a growing news brand and a team of talented professionals who care about news and the public’s right to know.” 
out of business 16 months after the passing of owner William O’Shaughnessy, who served as president of Whitney Radio. The station ceased broadcasting on September 7. In July, O’Shaughnessy’s family sold WVIP-FM, New Rochelle to religious broadcaster Hope Media Group for $8.15 million. 
Rosenworcel says, “Congratulations to Anna Gomez on her confirmation by the United States Senate. I look forward to welcoming her to the Commission. Anna brings with her a wealth of telecommunications experience, a substantial record of public service, and a history of working to ensure the United States stays on the cutting edge of keeping us all connected. Her international expertise will be a real asset to the agency. I look forward to working with her to advance the agency’s mission to ensure the benefits of modern communications reach everyone, everywhere and that the United States can continue to lead in the digital age.”
after more than 10 years with the station. WLS posted the following to Facebook: “Yesterday was John Howell’s last show on The Big 89. He has been a staple of 890 WLS for over a decade. His wit, political prowess, and focus on Chicago conversations has given our audience a destination for smart, local radio in the afternoons. Thank you, John, for being a part of the fabric of The Big 89.” Howell has not commented publicly on his departure from the station.
2024 election season and beyond. ‘The Megyn Kelly Show’ will premiere exclusively on SiriusXM Triumph channel 111 on weekdays from 12:00 noon to 2:00 pm ET, with the program later available on all major podcast platforms. The program will also air a special edition on September 14 when Kelly interviews former President Donald Trump. Kelly comments, “I’m thrilled to continue my relationship with the great people at SiriusXM who have been tremendously supportive of our show from the start. In an age where conversations are being stifled and news skewed to please the politics of only a small set of people, it is a privilege to work with a company that values free speech and open, respectful, elevated debate.”
The third of four rounds of ratings data from Nielsen Audio’s August 2023 PPM survey has been released for 12 markets including Portland, Charlotte, San Antonio, Sacramento, Pittsburgh, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Orlando, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Kansas City, and Columbus. Nielsen’s August 2023 sweep covered July 20 – August 16. Today, TALKERS magazine managing editor Mike Kinosian presents his Ratings Takeaways from this group of markets. In Portland, Alpha Media’s news/talk KXL-FM jumps nine-tenths to finish with a 6.7 share (weekly, 6+ AQH share) that lifts it to the #3 rank in the market, while iHeartMedia’s crosstown news/talk KEX adds a half share for a 1.9 share finish good for the #18 rank. In San Antonio, Alpha Media’s news/talk KTSA tacks on one-tenth to wrap the survey with a 2.6 share and rises to the #15 rank, while iHeartMedia’s crosstown news/talk WOAI dips two-tenths for a 2.4 share finish and falls to the #17 rank. In Salt Lake City, Bonneville news/talk KSL-AM/FM jumps six-tenths for a 4.9 share finish that lifts it to the #5 rank, while iHeartMedia’s crosstown news/talk KNRS-AM/FM drops 1.2 shares to finish with a 3.4 share that drags it down to the #11 rank. 
radio stations for free to air around holidays including Memorial Day, Independence Day, and Veterans Day, as well as year-round programs. The Fisher House 
Foundation is a non-profit that provides housing for families of patients receiving care at major military and VA medical centers so they can be near their loved ones. O’Connor, who hosts the morning drive program at Cumulus Media’s news/talk WMAL-FM, Washington, has hosted the show in the past. Fisher House says, “This informational talk show will inspire listeners through stories of amazing service members, veterans, and their families. Producer and host Larry O’Connor’s love and respect for our military will only amplify these radio specials.”
“SportsRadio 910 The Fan,” beginning Monday (9/11). In addition to his work as a sportswriter, Phillips has been a frequent guest on “The Fan.” Audacy Richmond SVP and market manager Bennett Zier states, “Michael Phillips, for many years, has been highly regarded as the most respected voice of Richmond and Virginia Sports. We are delighted to have MP wear our ‘910 The Fan’ jersey for Audacy Richmond.” Phillips previously served at the Richmond Times-Dispatch as sports editor and interim executive editor. 
add a Saturday edition of the program that will also air at 8:00 pm ET. FNC EVP of primetime programming Meade Cooper says, “Since joining the network in 2017, Mark has provided our audience with thought-provoking analysis on America’s core values and their impact on current events. We are looking forward to expanding his popular show to two nights a week.” Levin comments, “It’s an honor to join the other outstanding hosts on Saturday in bringing the most intelligent, informative and entertaining programming to the nation. Thank you to our loyal audience and FOX News.”
Some of the key findings of the study include: 1) Heavy radio listeners engage in a staggering 4.7 billion weekly brand conversations, outpacing heavy users of other media channels, including TV, social media, magazines and newspapers; 2) The study underscores for advertisers’ radio’s dominance across 15 business categories, including sports, financial services, technology and more; 3) A staggering 51% of brand conversations among heavy radio listeners result in an intent to purchase, surpassing the national average of 49%. This remarkable impact is particularly pronounced in sectors like automotive, sports, telecom, technology, beverages and healthcare. RAB CEO Erica Farber states, “Radio is often referred to as the original social medium because of its ability to engage listeners through conversation, entertainment and information. This study underscores radio’s ability to drive word of mouth brand conversations for advertising partners, more so than any other media.” The webinar is free for RAB members. 
recently director of sales at the company’s Beaumont, Texas/Lake Charles, Louisiana operations. The cluster includes news/talk WJCW-AM, sports talk WXSM-AM and two music brands. Walker says, “I’m extremely excited to be joining our Tri-Cities team. Cumulus Media is a great company to be a part of, supporting its employees with many great resources for our success. I’m looking forward to the opportunity to serve our Tri-Cities team, advertisers, and community. I have family in the market and can’t wait to call Tri-Cities home.”
The second of four rounds of ratings data from Nielsen Audio’s August 2023 PPM survey has been released for 12 markets including Washington, Boston, Miami, Seattle, Detroit, Phoenix, Minneapolis, San Diego, Tampa, Denver, Baltimore, and St. Louis. Nielsen’s August 2023 sweep covered July 20 – August 16. Today, TALKERS magazine managing editor Mike Kinosian presents his Ratings Takeaways from this group of markets. In Washington, DC, Hubbard Broadcasting all-news WTOP-FM adds two-tenths for a 9.3 share (weekly, 6+ AQH share) and remains ranked #2 in the market, while Cumulus Media news/talk WMAL-FM is steady with a 3.5 share but rises to the #7 rank. In Seattle, Bonneville news/talk KIRO-FM dips two-tenths to finish with a 4.7 share and falls to the #7 rank, while Lotus Communications all-news KNWN-AM/FM declines three-tenths to wrap the survey with a 2.0 share good for the #19 rank. In Phoenix, iHeartMedia news/talk KFYI adds a full share for a 3.9 share finish that lifts it to the #10 rank, while Bonneville’s crosstown news/talk KTAR-FM adds three tenths to finish with a 3.0 share but remains ranked #15 in the market. 
society alike to learn from the mistakes made before, during and after the tragedy so as to prevent such an atrocity from happening again. Carter tells TALKERS, “On the Sunday after 9/11, I listened to a sermon titled, ‘Making Sense of the Senseless.’ Its overriding message was: We cannot allow all these people to have died in vain. We need to do good in their name. And so to honor and remember all those who died, all those who survived, all those involved in the rescue and recovery efforts, as well as all those whose lives will never be the same, I have written and recorded a moving, memorable and thought-provoking piece, ‘Never Again Should There Be a 9/11,’ with the music, ‘Help is on the Way’ composed and performed by composer, David Friedman. It is all the more compelling when you watch the video on YouTube.” Carter adds, “We came together then. Can we come together again for the sake of the well-being of our nation and world. And what will it take to prevent such a horrific act from happening again? Thank you for caring and getting the vocals, the music and the video to as many people as possible around the world – including government officials who need to ensure our safety and security.” 
Donnarumma most recently served with Univision as president and GM for the company’s radio and TV assets in Arizona. iHeartMedia region president AJ Punjabi comments, “Joe epitomizes the excellence we champion across broadcasting, streaming, podcasts, live events, and our digital frontier. His vast experience magnifies our dedication to leading the audio-digital realm. With Joe, we’re not just adding a title – we’re harnessing a powerhouse of industry insight.”
celebrates the completion of its direct listing on Nasdaq and spin-out as a separate public company. After the spin-out, LiveOne will own approximately 80% of PodcastOne (on a non-fully diluted basis) and continue to consolidate PodcastOne’s financial results. LiveOne says it expects PodcastOne shares at $8 per share minimum.
series titled, “Behind the Mic,” that features radio personalities Angela Yee, Dana Cortez, and Patty Steele. The webinar takes place on Wednesday, September 20 at 2:00 pm ET. MIW board president Ruth Presslaff comments, “MIW is proud to announce this free ‘Tools of the Trade: Behind the Mic’ webinar focused on the women who have blazed trails as on-air personalities and are integral members of their communities.” 
place to be in the radio world than iHeartRadio. Thanks to the finest broadcasting executives around, Tom Cuddy, Thea Mitchem and Bernie Weiss for making it all happen. Walking to work every day is like walking through the Radio Hall of Fame. Just to get to my studio, I pass Elvis Duran, Jim Kerr, Charlamagne tha God, Angela Yee and other all-stars.” WOR program director Tom Cuddy adds, “When I joined WOR almost 11 years ago, Mark was my first hire. Since then, it’s been a blast watching Mark grow into becoming the highest-rated radio talk host in his time slot, along with digital numbers that are among the highest in the country.”
noon to 4:00 pm in addition to the syndicated program heard 3:00 pm to 6:00 pm PT. Larson states, “20 years ago this month, Peter Kosann (then CEO of Westwood One) asked me to do a nationally syndicated radio talk show to replace a departing host. When Peter and I both left WWO and he formed Compass Media Networks, he asked if I would continue the partnership we had forged in the first six years. I quickly and happily agreed. One of the best decisions I’ve ever made.”
“Overreaction Monday” on September 4 that expands on the most popular segment of his flagship podcast, “The Rich Eisen Show,” into its own weekly podcast with Eisen and co-host Chris Brockman reflecting on the biggest fan- and hysterical media-driven overreactions from the previous weekend’s professional and college football games. To support his growing podcast network, Eisen has built an expanded studio and team in El Segundo, California with state-of-the-art recording equipment and set design. Eisen says, “Since joining the Cumulus family, they have shown unwavering support for my vision in growing my brand. As I have expanded my suite of services, they were the only ones I wanted to do business with, and I couldn’t think of a better place for my voice and productions to be heard over the coming years.” In addition to his podcast network, Eisen hosts the pregame and halftime shows for Westwood One’s syndicated “Monday Night Football” coverage and anchors “The Rich Eisen Show,” also syndicated by Westwood One for national radio.