Industry News

Longtime WHO, Des Moines Personality Jan Mickelson Dies

Legendary Des Moines talk radio personality Jan Mickelson died over the weekend at the age of 74. iHeartMedia’s WHO, Des Moines posted the following to its website: “Mickelson, who hosted a highly-rated conservative talk show on WHO Radio for nearly 30 years, suffered a stroke several years ago and had beenim living in the state of Nevada. The native Iowan was beloved by WHO Radio listeners and colleagues. He was known nationally for his thought-provoking talk show and on-air debates, but also for sharing information about local severe weather and other urgent news relevant to his listeners. Mickelson was known for tackling serious topics but was equally appreciated by his devoted listeners for providing much joy and humor with his infectious laughter.” iHeartMedia Des Moines market president Joel McCrea adds, “Jan Mickelson was the best at his craft. He was always prepared and knew how to get you to listen to the radio. If you disagreed with him, he would take your call first because he wanted a spirited conversation. All of us at WHO miss Jan Mickelson.”

Industry News

WSB Care-a-Thon Raises $1.9 million for Children’s Healthcare of Atlanta

Last Thursday and Friday (7/27-28) Cox Media Group news/talk WSB-AM/WSBB-FM, Atlanta held its 23rd imannual “95.5 WSB Care- a-Thon” to benefit the Aflac Cancer and Blood Disorders Center of Children’s Healthcare of Atlanta, raising $1.9 million. Throughout the two-day radio broadcast WSB hosts Scott Slade, Clark Howard, Mark Arum, Erick Erickson, Eric Von Haessler and Shelley Wynter were joined on-air by patients and families as they shared their stories of resilience, loss and hope.

Industry News

Good Karma Brands to Handle Sales for ESPN Radio

According to a piece by John Ourand at Sports Business Journal, ESPN has struck a deal to have Good Karma Brands handle sales for the ESPN Radio network and its ESPN podcasts. ESPN will remain in charge of theim content, distribution and marketing its audio segment. Good Karma chief Craig Karmazin tells SBJ, “This is the culmination of what we’ve been working towards for the last 20-plus years. For us over the last 20 years, we’ve been focused on the medium and focused on the ESPN brand. Now for us to be able to run the sales operations of the entire network and the podcast business, it truly is like a culmination of everything we’ve been working towards in this partnership with them.” Read the Sports Business Journal story here.

Industry News

iHeartMedia Fires Don Geronimo Over “Barbie” Episode

According to a number of sources, including from CBS News Baltimore, iHeartMedia has fired WBIG, Washington morning personality Don Geronimo after he made comments on the air about WUSA-TV reporter Sharla McBride. While covering the NFL’s Washington Commanders training camp for iHeartMedia – which has the radio play-by-play rights to the club’s games – Geronimo is reported to have said, “Hey look, Barbie’s here. Hi, Barbie girl. I’m guessing she’s a cheerleader.” The club initially barred WBIG from covering practice on Fridayim (7/28) and terminated his employment on Saturday. iHeartMedia issued the following statement: “After an internal review, Don Geronimo is no longer an employee of WBIG. We take matters of this nature very seriously and this behavior does not align with our core values.” McBride commented to ESPN, “When I heard the comments made about me on the radio show, I felt incredibly insulted and embarrassed. In my 17 years as a professional journalist, I have never been disrespected in such a blatant manner while trying to do my job. Their words were sexist and misogynistic. No woman should experience this in the workplace, and I appreciate the Commanders’ swift response in handling this matter.” For his part, Geronimo stated via social media, “At this time I will not be providing comment on the events of the last few days. I am consulting with my advisers as to my options moving forward, including an accurate reflection of the situation.” Read the CBS News story here.

Industry News

Cumulus Media Second Quarter Net Revenue Falls 11%

Cumulus Media Inc is the first radio company to report its financial results for the second quarter of 2023 and post Q2 net revenue of $210.1 million, a decrease of 11.2% over the same period in 2022. The company also posts a net loss of $1.1 million for the quarter, compared to the $8.6 million in net earnings it reported for Q2 of 2022. Breaking down the company’s revenue by segment, digital is the only segment that didn’t report a double-digit decline ($37.5 million, down 0.7%). Spot revenue was $107.1 million (down 15.7%) and network revenue was $39.7 million (down 18.5%). Cumulus notes that its total debt as of June 30, 2023 was $680.9 million.im Cumulus president and CEO Mary Berner comments, “Despite continued challenges in the overall market, our second quarter revenue performed in-line with expectations while Adjusted EBITDA exceeded them. As in prior quarters, we generated strong revenue growth in our digital marketing services business, implemented meaningful cost reductions, and further improved our balance sheet by generating cash from operations and reducing our total and net debt to the lowest levels in more than a decade. Additionally, we executed a highly accretive and opportunistic tender offer, which resulted in the retirement of approximately 10% of our shares outstanding. Our proven track record of strong operational and financial execution in adverse conditions gives us unwavering confidence in our ability to optimize results in the current weak ad market and rebound strongly when the environment improves. In the meantime, we will continue to invest in our digital businesses, further enhance our operating leverage through additional cost reductions, and execute on our strategy to opportunistically deploy capital to maximize long-term shareholder value.”

Industry News

Edison Releases Kids Podcast Listening Report

Edison Research released data from its Kids Podcast Listener Report during a webinar held yesterday (7/27). Some of the key points from the report that looks at podcast listening by kids ages 6-12 include: 1) Forty-six percent of children ages 6-12 in the U.S. have ever listened to a podcast, and 29% of ages 6-12 in the U.S. listened to a podcast in the last month. The percentage of kids ages 6-12 who listened in the last month jumps toim 42% if their parents have also listened to podcasts in the last month; 2) Eighty-seven percent of kid podcast listeners ages 6-12 say they have ever shared something they learned from a podcast with other people; 3) Kid podcast listeners participate in co-listening: Sixty-eight percent of parents of kid monthly podcast listeners ages 6-12 say their children listen with at least one parent, and 54% say their kids listen with siblings; 4) Parents use podcasts to foster family connections: Among parents of kid monthly podcast listeners ages 6-12, 72% say it is important for kids podcasts to be able to be enjoyed by the whole family and 71% say it is important for kids podcasts to give parents and their children topics to discuss together; and 5) Parents of kid monthly podcast listeners ages 6-12 say the top genres among their kids are: games (51%), music (43%), comedy (39%), short stories (39%).

Industry News

Caroline Beasley Speaks at Media Institute Luncheon

im

Beasley Media Group CEO Caroline Beasley is pictured (above center) with former FCC chairman and The Media Institute chairman Richard Wiley (right) and The Media Institute President and CEO Rick Kaplar (left) at the St. Regis Hotel in Washington, DC where she participated in a one-on-one interview with Wiley. She discussed topics including current policies impacting broadcasters on Capitol Hill and the challenges and opportunities presented by AI.

Industry News

Derek Wolfe Exits Denver’s 104.3 The Fan

According to a report by KUSA-TV, Denver, former Denver Broncos defensive lineman Derek Wolfe has exited Bonneville’s sports talk KKFN, Denver “104.3 The Fan” where he co-hosted the afternoon show with Darren “Dmac” McKee.  Wolfe posted the following to his Instagram account: “Hello everyone! I wanted to share someim news with you first. I have made the tough decision to step down as co-host of The Drive on the Fan due to persistent scheduling conflicts. It has been an incredible journey with my radio crew, and this choice was not easy to make. Lately, my passion for outdoor pursuits has taken me on an exciting and unexpected journey, prompting me to continue chasing my dreams. I genuinely appreciate your understanding and support throughout this process!” The station paired Wolfe with McKee in October of last year.

Industry News

Former KHTK, Sacramento Host Grant Napear’s Suit Against Bonneville Can Proceed

Former KHTK-AM, Sacramento sports talk personality Grant Napear lost a couple of requests in his legal fight against former employer Bonneville International, but U.S. District Court Judge Dale A. Drozd did rule in Napear’s favor in allowing his wrongful termination suit to go forward on the grounds of retaliation. Drozd ruled against Napear in his religious discrimination and breach of contract. As you may recall, in May of 2020 Napearim responded to former Sacramento Kings player DeMarcus Cousins’ social media post asking him what he thought of Black Lives Matter and Napear responded, “ALL LIVES MATTER… EVERY SINGLE ONE.” Bonneville fired him citing a clause in his contract that holds him responsible for anything that “might discredit the goodwill, good name or reputation” of the company. In allowing the wrongful termination suit to go forward, Judge Drozd wrote that Napear “has stated a plausible cause for retaliation” under California Labor Code sections 1101 and 1102, stating further that “the court finds that plaintiff has sufficiently alleged a ‘rule, regulation, or policy’ under (section) 1101 by alleging … defendant used his termination ‘as an example to all other employees of the Company as an implicit warning that anyone that dared to speak out publicly and criticize the politics of the Black Lives Matter movement would be summarily terminated.’” Read the full Sacramento Bee story here.

Industry News

TALKERS News Notes

Heather Cohen, executive vice president of The Weiss Agency, is appointed president of the Hofstra Alumni Organization. Cohen says, “It is a privilege to continue serving the University that I am so proud of. In my new role as president, I look forward to working with the executive board, our incredible alumni, and the entire Hofstra family.”

The GCN-syndicated “Dr. Daliah Wachs” program is added to the program schedule at KGEZ-AM, Kalispell, Montana in the 9:00 pm to 12:00 midnight daypart.

Industry News

South Carolina Talk Radio Pro Jim Burnside Dies at 80

WYFF-TV, Greenville, South Carolina reports that market talk radio pro Jim Burnside died on July 23 after a battle with cancer. The station reports, “Jim Burnside was an innovative radio talent, commercial writer and producer and mentor to many Upstate and national radio personalities… Jim is credited with bringing ‘Talk Radio’ to the Upstate in 1988, hiring Rush Limbaugh and Mike Gallagher to headline WFBC-AM. Later, the station’s call letters were changed to WORD-AM, and Burnside served as program director and station manager.” See the full story here.

Industry News

OpenAI Seeks Dismissal of Defamation Suit

Artificial Intelligence firm OpenAI has filed a Motion to Dismiss the defamation suit filed against it by talk show host Mark Walters, who hosts radio programs produced by his CCW Broadcast Media company. TALKERS reported the suit by Walters back on June 9 in which Walters claims the use of OpenAI’s ChatGPT by journalist Fred Riehl that created content stating the Walters was accused of embezzling funds from the Secondim Amendment Foundation defamed him. No such accusation ever actually took place. In its Motion to Dismiss, Open AI argues several points, including that Georgia is not the proper jurisdiction, but it summarizes its argument that Walters’ claims don’t meet the burden of defamation when it says, “Even more fundamentally, Riehl’s use of ChatGPT did not cause a ‘publication’ of the outputs. OpenAI’s Terms of Use make clear that ChatGPT is a tool that assists the user in the writing or creation of draft content and that the user owns the content they generate with ChatGPT. Riehl agreed to abide by these Terms of Use, including the requirement that users ‘verify’ and ‘take ultimate responsibility for the content being published.’ As a matter of law, this creation of draft content for the user’s internal benefit is not ‘publication.’”

Industry News

Carrozza Promoted to Corporate Production Post for Beasley

Beasley Media Group promotes Tom Carrozza to corporate director of production operations.  Carrozza has been serving the company as the creative services director at its Tampa stations WLLD-FM and WPBB-FM sinceim 1999. Beasley says that in his new role, he will report directly to chief content officer Justin Chase and will work directly with the company’s production directors to help foster high quality creative production by leveraging the talented producers within the company and developing systems to reduce friction and redundant work. Chase comments, “Over the past 10 years, I’ve relied on Tom for many important corporate initiatives and special projects. No matter what he tackles, I’ve always been impressed with his professionalism, performance, and leadership. We look forward to leveraging Tom’s skills for the benefit of our overall company.”

Industry News

Broadcaster Martha Fahnoe Passes

Dimes Media Corporation announces that its chair Martha (Buckley) Fahnoe passed away unexpectedly on July 21. She was the daughter of Richard Dimes Buckley Sr., founder of Buckley Broadcasting. She isim predeceased by her brother Rick Buckley. She founded Dimes Media Corporation with her son Eric Dimes Fahnoe upon the closing of Buckley Broadcasting. Dimes Media, which operates radio stations in San Luis Obispo and King City California, says “Martha grew up in broadcasting beginning in the mailroom of WNEW as a teenager and her success in many capacities was ensured by her engaging personality and interest in her co-workers, clients and the community.” In lieu of flowers the family asks that donations in her memory be made to the Broadcasters Foundation of America or The Living Desertin Palm Desert, CA.

Industry News

Premiere and Patty Steele Launch New Podcast

Premiere Networks and award-winning broadcast radio star Patty Steele announce the launch of “The Backstory with Patty Steele” podcast. The program features Steele as she “enlightens and entertains listeners with a journey through pivotal moments in history and pop culture.” Some of the stories include a look at theim world-famous architect and the mass murders that took place at his home; how bathing suits went from 30 pounds of wet wool to the thong; the original Olympics with athletes competing completely in the nude; and an iconic inventor who actually stole his masterpiece. Steele says, “My fascination with these kinds of stories is all about a fun peek behind the curtain of what we think we know about famous folks, events and lifestyles. When we discover these incredible backstories, it’s a blast worth repeating to friends! I look forward to helping listeners deepen their connection to the past, so we can understand how we got to the present, and how to better map out our future.”

Industry News

TALKERS Celebrates 33rd Year of Publishing

Today begins the 34th year of publishing for TALKERS magazine as a trade journal serving the talk media industry. The first issue rolled off the presses in the form of a tabloid newspaper on Monday July 23, 1990 focusing primarily on talk radio.  Since then it has grown and evolved with the industry to go through severalim format phases including a full color magazine and eventually a daily online operation geared to providing news, advice and opinions to professionals involved in programming, managing, marketing and operating an array of related platforms in what has come to be known as talk media.  This includes most popular forms of spoken-word AM and FM radio, plus online programming, podcasting, cable television and satellite broadcasting. During this period, TALKERS has produced and presented 26 national conventions in New York and another three in Los Angeles. Add to that more than 35 regional, national and international forums about the field and countless radio rows including several at the White House in conjunction with both the Bill Clinton and George W. Bush administrations. TALKERS remains and will continue to be a non-partisan proponent of the First Amendment with a great love and passion for talk media’s roots in the century old medium of radio.

Industry Views

Pending Business: Pulling the Rug Out from Under

By Steve Lapa
Lapcom Communications Corp
President

imWhen was the last time you went shopping for a quality living room rug? Not an oriental, because that is just too easy. We’re talking high quality living room rug that will blend in and stand the test of time… and the dog. Next to fighting with a credit card company, it’s the worst shopping experience ever.

Try this at home when you have nothing better to do. Chances are you want to find the rug of your dreams, so you check out the major department stores. Up the escalator, walk through home furnishings and an employee may or may not be available. Most likely not, so you head to an adjacent department, and someone sends someone who barely knows the product and selection.

This scenario is repeated at most major department stores today, so off we go to our favorite furniture store where rugs are an accessory, like belts in the men’s store. No go here. Time to head over to the carpet, tile, and rug store.

Employees here are a bit more available and knowledgeable, but the quality and selection are just not quite right. Time for the expensive specialty store where expertise and service are #1 and so is price. $10,000 for that!

Time for the online experience to take over with countless purchase options, reviews, and confusing virtual reality options. This is getting painful. The attempted purchase is frozen in frustration. What does this have to do with what we do? Live and learn.

— Are you always available for your advertisers? When business is soft you lob in a mandatory attempt and move on. When business is through the roof, are you quick to return a call or open a new door?

— Do you simply walk through the same motions, or reflect the energy and enthusiasm of an exciting program lineup? Think of the rug seller, flipping through those rugs. Boring!

— Do you earn the price or just blame the boss? Since day one, some sellers find it easier to blame the boss instead of earning the value proposition.

— Are your advertisers frozen in frustration? Feel free to use the phrase that pays. Defrost that frozen decision maker before your competitor does.

A great program director once told me, the best on-air talents observe life with a pad and pen. Their notes come to life when the mic goes on. The same is true for great sellers and managers. Every purchase experience can improve your next call.

Steve Lapa is the president of Lapcom Communications Corp. based in Palm Beach Gardens, FL. Lapcom is a media sales, marketing, and development consultancy. Contact Steve Lapa via email at: Steve@Lapcomventures.com.

Industry News

On-Air Schedule Tweaks at “97.1 The Freak” in Dallas

According to a report in the Dallas Morning News, new program director Dominic “Zakk” Zaccagnini has put into effect some changes to the program lineup at iHeartMedia‘s sports/hot talk KEGL-FM, Dallas “91.7 The Freak,” effective today (7/24). Personalities Danny Balis and Mike Sirois move from the afternoon drive show to the morningim drive program alongside Kevin “KT” Turner and takes on “The Downbeat” as its name. Jeff Cavanaugh and Julie Dobbs move from the morning daypart to afternoons alongside Mike Rhyner for “The Speakeasy” program. The show times are altered by an hour with the morning program airing from 6:00 am to 10:00 am, the midday “Ben and Skin” show airing from 10:00 am to 2:00 pm, followed by the afternoon show airing from 2:00 pm to 6:00 pm. Zaccagnini tells the Dallas Morning News, “The catalyst for this change was to make a better fit for our same staff to further excel in a weekday lineup that best suits their professional and personal lifestyles.” Read the full story here.

Industry News

KKOB, Albuquerque Named Station of the Year by NMBA

Three of Cumulus Media’s Albuquerque radio stations were honored by the New Mexico Broadcasters Association with Excellence in Broadcasting Awards. News/talk KKOB-AM/FM received seven awards, including Station of the Year for the second consecutive year. It was also honored in the categories of Breaking News,im Complete Newscast, Continuing Coverage, Features News, Newscaster of the Year (news anchor Haylee Gonzales), and Sports Play by Play. In addition, sports talk KNML and country KRST-FM were each recognized for excellence. KKOB news director John Summers states, “It’s the hard work and dedication to factual journalism that brings success. Each knows and understands just how important their work is in relaying details correctly and concepts honestly. The bottom line is simple. They love what they do. And it shows.”

Industry News

Broadcasters Foundation Holds First Media Mixer in NYC

im

The Broadcasters Foundation of America held its first Media Mixer on Friday (7/21) at the New York City studios of iHeartMedia – hosted by nationally syndicated personality Angela Yee. BFoA says more than 150 broadcasters turned out for the event designed to give up-and-coming professionals in broadcasting the opportunity to network with talent, managers, and executives and bring awareness of the mission of the Broadcasters Foundation. BFoA president Tim McCarthy says, “We are delighted with the large turnout of young professionals to last night’s event. We want to hold similar events in other markets. I want to thank members of our Board, industry leaders, and the talent who made themselves available to young professionals who are just beginning their broadcasting careers. Pictured above are McCarthy, Premiere Networks president Julie Talbott, Yee, Katz Radio Group president Christine Travaglini, The Weiss Agency EVP Heather Cohen, and Katz TV Group president and CEO Leo MacCourtney.

Industry News

Cumulus Media Promotes Ann Thomas to Program Director for WJR, Detroit

Cumulus Media announces that it is promoting Ann Thomas to program director for heritage news/talk outlet WJR, Detroit. The company says that Thomas becomes the first female program director in the station’s 101-year history. She rises from her previous role as assistant program director and executive producer. Thomas started at WJR as an intern in 1982 and was then hired full-time as producer of a WJR program called, “The Other Side of the News.” She went on to become a WJR news reporter and anchor, winning several Associated Press, United Press International, and Detroit Press Club awards for Breaking News and Auto Negotiations. In 1999, Thomas was named executive producer of the “Paul W. Smith Show.” Thomas also produced the WJR-MSU tailgate shows for 15 years from 2006-2021. She has hosted WJR programs including “The Healthy Woman Show,” “Opportunity Detroit,” “The WJR Gardening Show,” and “Women Who Lead,” which she launched 11 years ago to highlight Michigan women from all walks of life doing great things in the community. Cumulus Media RVP and market manager Steve Finateri says, “Ann Thomas is the heart and soul of WJR and has been deserving of this move for a very long time. Her fingerprints are already all over this heritage, award-winning radio station, but we are all excited to see what the future holds with Ann in the driver’s seat!” At the same time, Cumulus promotes Mike Wheeler from WJR PD to operations manager for Cumulus Detroit/Ann Arbor. In the newly created position, Wheeler will manage operations for the company’s four Detroit stations and four Ann Arbor stations.

Industry News

“The Ramsey Show” Moves to Live Airing on Florida’s “The Shepherd”

MARC Media Group announces that it is adding “The Ramsey Show” to its religious talk format “The Shepherd” that airs on WIWA-AM, Orlando; WTMN-AM/W242CS, Gainesville; and WRZN-AM/W278CI, Ocala/The Villages in Florida. MARC says, “For live ‘tough love’ personal finance advice, America has long tuned to Dave Ramsey,im who is considered the top personal finance guru in the country. But here in Central Florida, loyal listeners had to wait for rebroadcasts of the program late into the night. That changed this week when ‘The Ramsey Show’ began airing live weekday afternoons on ‘The Shepherd’ radio stations.” MARC chief revenue officer Scott Miller comments, “We couldn’t wait to bring ‘The Ramsey Show’ live to our Florida listeners. This is not just talk radio, it’s life changing. What more important message could we bring to our growing base of listeners than live financial peace based on The Greatest Book of All?”

Industry Views

Speaking the Conversation of the Listener

By Walter Sabo
Consultant, Sabo Media
A.K.A. Walter Sterling
Radio Host, Sterling On Sunday
Talk Media Network

In the strum and dirge of daily radio life, it is easy to forget the mad skills required to do what we do. Consider the TV sitcom. 22 minutes of content, 22 times a year. The cast ad libs – nothing! Between eight and 11 writers scribe every word. Hair, makeup… handled by others! A donut run? No, there’s the crafts services table that will make you, the star, whatever you want any time you want it. Hot? A production assistant sprays mint scented water on you.

How’s your day? You or your on-air talent create a three- or four- or perhaps even five-hour show out of thin – or should I say rarefied – air! Writers? You mean that kid who has to go to class at 11? Production? Sure, as soon as the spots for the weekend are cut. Food? Ya got quarters?

You are a miracle of creativity, ambition and sheer talent. Reward? The company wants to cut your live read fees and could you help out in sales? As a point of reference, when Dr. Ruth Westheimer killed in the ratings at WYNY, we gave her a Seville.

GOOD NEWS. You can fix this. Talk radio is the last frontier of free form radio. Fact is you can do whatever you want.

Most talk shows and stations peaked about six years ago. The audience is not growing, it’s not attracted to talk radio’s offerings of endless political theory. So, stop.

What works? Take a look at the ratings of KMBZ-FM Kansas City; KFGO, Fargo; KFBK, Sacramento; WABC, New York’s Frank Morano; WTAM, Cleveland’s Bill Wills; WLW, Cincinnati; KFI, Los Angeles; KDKA, Pittsburgh’s midday. (I will now be flooded with other examples but listen to those stations.) Hosting a network radio show, “Sterling On Sunday,” I have learned what those audio outlets exemplify works!

Talk about your day. Talk about what two best friends would discuss over a quick lunch. The topics that generate ratings are not always the “hot talk radio topics.” The list that works reads like this, try it:

— Trouble with the in-laws.

— Is “Storage Wars” fake?

— Tip at the drive-thru?

— Cell phone for a 10-year-old?

— Married? Is texting cheating?

— How can I do less and earn more?

— Yes, it was a controlled demolition.

— Taylor Swift bi? Harry Styles bi?

— Are you kidding? Women ARE in charge!

— Turn on the AC, shut the damn window.

The power of the mirror. When the radio speaks the conversation of the listener, the ratings go up. Guaranteed.

Walter Sabo was the youngest executive vice president in the history of NBC. The youngest VP in the history of ABC. He was a consultant to RKO General longer than Bill Drake. Walter was the in-house consultant to Sirius for eight years. He has never written a resume. Contact him at walter@sabomedia.com. or mobile 646-678-1110. Hear Walter Sterling at www.waltersterlingshow.com.

Industry News

iHeartMedia and LinkedIn Collaborate on Podcast Projects

iHeartMedia and LinkedIn are entering a strategic partnership to introduce new offerings to the business podcast space. Key elements of the partnership include LinkedIn and iHeartMedia collaborating to produce new shows for the LinkedIn Podcast Network powered by iHeartPodcasts; partnering to license leading business and B2Bim podcasts, offering a differentiated promotional playbook to help them grow and monetize their content; and the companies teaming up to offer new resources for niche and emerging business podcasters. iHeartMedia Digital Audio Group CEO Conal Byrne states, “iHeartMedia is thrilled to team up with LinkedIn to help propel professional conversations through the podcast space. The combination of our vast reach and industry resources and expertise with LinkedIn’s professional network will allow us to bring a new level of innovation and growth to the communities’ business creators care about most.”