Industry Views

Monday Memo: Podcasting Pitfalls (and How to Avoid Them)

By Holland Cooke
Consultant

imgThe most common mistake podcasters make is assuming the microphone alone creates an audience. Too many would-be hosts hit Record without a clear strategy for WHY they’re doing a show, WHO it’s for, and what makes it DIFFERENT from millions of other podcasts.

Here’s where radio people have an edge. They already understand what makes audio work, fundamentals instructive to pure-play podcasters:

Know your listener. The #1 podcasting error is failing to define the audience. A show that tries to appeal to “everyone” ends up resonating with no one. In radio, you wouldn’t program an AC station to please hard rock fans; the same logic applies here. Create a mental picture of your ideal listener and talk to that person… as an individual. A radio show might have thousands of listeners, but they’re listening one-at-a-time. Podcasting is even more intimate. It’s the opposite of “Hi everybody.”

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Prep like it matters. Many podcasters think conversation is enough. But even the loosest-sounding successful shows are tightly structured. Radio taught you this already: segments, clocks, and story arcs keep things moving. Format your podcast.

Edit ruthlessly. The average podcast listener has thousands of options. Rambling is death. Trimming, pacing interviews, and cutting inside jokes shows respect for your listener’s time. Walking-the-walk, TALKERS publisher Michael Harrison takes a mere 44 seconds to explain in this video.

Be consistent. If your show drops sporadically, you won’t build loyalty. Listeners want reliability, whether weekly, biweekly, or monthly. Radio wouldn’t move a morning show around the schedule; don’t do it with your podcast.

Think discoverability. A podcast isn’t a “Field of Dreams” (if you build it, they will come). Great audio needs marketing: social media clips, smart SEO in show notes, cross-promotion, and ideally, visibility on your broadcast platforms.

Make it about them, not you. This is the big one. Too many podcasts are self-indulgent — hosts talking about what interests them. Successful shows flip the script: What does my audience care about, and how can I deliver it in a way only I can?

The bottom line: Radio has invested 100 years doing what podcasting is just learning — creating focused, disciplined, listener-first audio. Bring those habits with you, and you’ll click, while others are still figuring it out.

Holland Cooke (HollandCooke.com) is a media consultant working at the intersection of broadcasting and the Internet. Follow HC on Twitter @HollandCooke

Industry Views

When Borrowed Becomes Stolen: The Fair Use Line for Talk Hosts and Podcasters

By Matthew B. Harrison
TALKERS, VP/Associate Publisher
Harrison Media Law, Senior Partner
Goodphone Communications, Executive Producer

imgJimmy Kimmel’s first monologue back after the recent suspension had the audience laughing and gasping, and, in the hands of countless radio hosts and podcasters, replaying. Within hours, clips of his bit weren’t just being shared online. They were being chopped up, (re)framed, and (re)analyzed as if they were original show content. For listeners, that remix feels fresh. For lawyers, it is a fair use minefield.

Playing the Clip, Owning the Take

Audiences increasingly expect their favorite talkers to “play the clip,” whether it is from Kimmel, Stephen Colbert, Sid Rosenberg, or Charlamagne tha God on The Breakfast Club (a show that seems to go viral every other week), and then add their own color commentary, the kind of play-by-play that makes it feel like the home team is calling the action. That format works. It gives context, tone, and a sense of immediacy that no transcript can match. Done right, it is what transforms a broadcast from just a recap into a fulfilling cultural conversation.

But with every replay comes a risk. Fair use does not mean free use. Courts weigh factors like how much of the original work you used, whether your purpose was transformative, and whether your use cuts into the market value of the original. Playing a short excerpt of Kimmel’s joke before riffing on it? Likely fair. Running half the monologue and treating it as your A-block? That edges into trouble, both legally and from a programming perspective. Why would anyone want to hear your take if your “take” is mostly replaying someone else? That is not adding to the common zeitgeist; it is just echoing it.

The Podcaster and Broadcaster Dilemma

Radio hosts have long leaned on “newsworthiness” as a shield. Podcasters often assume the same rules apply. But here is the distinction: news clips and comedy bits are not treated equally in court. A station rebroadcasting a press conference is serving public information. A podcast re-airing Kimmel is competing directly with Kimmel’s own clips on YouTube. One informs, the other risks replacing.

And while linking to ABC or YouTube is a courtesy, just as crediting them in the video itself might be, it does not replace the traffic (and ad dollars) Kimmel’s team expects. The law does not guarantee creators compensation for commentary, but judges do consider market harm. If your listeners stop watching the original because your show already gave them the “best parts,” you have tilted the scale against yourself. John Oliver is often credited (though no one seems able to find the clip): “People are always going to say stupid things, and you’re always going to be able to make jokes about that, but it should be the last thing you add in, because it is the easiest thing.”

Whether he actually said it or not almost proves the point. Recycling someone else’s words without context is the laziest move in the book. And if you cannot find the source? That is about as meta as fair use gets.

The Takeaway

Here is the smart play: use less and say more. A 20-second clip followed by two minutes of commentary is transformative. A five-minute clip with a shrug and a chuckle is not. Audiences do not tune in to hear Kimmel again. They tune in to hear what you think about Kimmel. The moment you let someone else’s content carry your show, you lose both legal ground and creative authority.

Matthew B. Harrison is a media and intellectual property attorney who advises radio hosts, content creators, and creative entrepreneurs. He has written extensively on fair use, AI law, and the future of digital rights. Reach him at Matthew@HarrisonMediaLaw.com or read more at TALKERS.com.

Features

How News/Talk Radio Should Adapt to Attract and Retain a Younger Audience

By Bill Bartholomew
Talk Host/Podcaster/Journalist/Musician

imFolks in the Gen Z and millennial demographics are heavily engaged in political issues, care about news in their communities and the world, and are constantly bombarded with content.  So why are they less likely to tune into and interact with news/talk radio than older demographics?

Talk radio has historically skewed older, and from an ad portfolio standpoint, is often targeted at the coveted 35-54 and 55+ demographics.  However, in a world where social media influencers and podcasters supply information to millions of young consumers, news/talk radio should be able to effectively compete for the ears of younger generations in a comparable, if not expanded way.

For all of the anecdotal and hard evidence that terrestrial radio may be trending in a downward direction, the format continues to have a vast reach.  It is convenient to engage with it in automobiles, and occasionally in home or office settings.  Yet, while younger generations listen to radio, news/talk is not the format that they turn to by and large.

Unlike many digital-first content producers, radio retains a unique quality: authority.  By virtue of editorial standards, FCC regulation and brand – things that social media and podcasts often lack – radio has the unique ability to deliver credible, vetted, nuanced and universally trustworthy content that can instantaneously adapt to meet the needs of the moment.  This is true in everything from natural disasters to rapidly evolving breaking news stories, providing a channel for immediate, reactionary insight and analysis.

There are several steps that news/talk radio should pursue in earnest to adapt to the current climate of content consumption, particularly by younger listeners, that can reach, and most importantly, retain broader, younger, more diverse and more engaged audiences.

  1. Introduce younger people into the conversation.

Too often, Gen Z and millennials are skewered by older hosts, mocked for their perceived naivety, unchecked optimism and me-first approach.  While some of these qualities can be accurate, that approach reflects a disconnect between older generations and the experience of younger ones.  Millennials and Gen Z have grown up in a post-9/11 world replete with “endless wars”, the fallout from the 2008 financial crisis, runaway student debt, a massive housing crisis, the mental health stressors of social media, Covid19’s impact on traditional youth experiences, climate change, a deeply bifurcated political environment and a constantly evolving quest for social justice.  Through these experiences, younger generations offer an important perspective that should be assigned the same news value as experts from older generations.

Are you discussing shifts towards electric vehicles?  Bring on someone from Gen Z to share their perspective on why steps towards carbon neutrality are important to them.  Engaging a conversation on the president’s approval rating?  Perhaps younger conservative and leftist voices should be included in the conversation.  Discussing immigration?  How about the perspective of a younger member of a Latino organization?

By giving younger generations and more diverse guests a platform, stations can simultaneously expand their content and reach.  With consistency, the station’s brand will become more familiar to younger potential listeners who may be inclined to tune in to hear someone who shares their identity and perspective on – here’s that word again – a platform of authority.  Let the guest do the work of establishing the credibility and importance of your station or talk show to younger audiences by posting about their appearance on social media, sharing audio clips and mentioning to their peers.  It will build familiarity and trust among those generations, who in turn, will begin to tune in on a more regular basis.

Stations should also consider bringing more younger, competent voices into on-air roles, whether that be through reporting, segments, fill-in hosts, weekend shows or full-time hosts.

  1. Meet the audience where they are: their phones. 

As mentioned above, the convenience of simply turning on AM/FM radio is highly appealing in automobiles, though as Apple Carplay continues to adapt and evolve, digital-first content is likely to become as simple and convenient in the near future.

Talk radio needs to make consuming their product on smartphones as simple and direct as turning on a traditional radio.  This means no clunky websites, no lengthy pre-roll spots, a reliable stream connection and a “one touch” means of turning on and off the station.  This should also mean expanding talk shows to high-quality video livestreams, following in the footsteps of the top YouTube and Twitch performers; developing unique content for TikTok and Instagram; building podcasts that are focused on specific issues, and; providing interaction via text and chat.

Radio has the ability to be the ultimate livestreamer, social media influencer and podcaster, but rarely harnesses these platforms in a meaningful way.

It is not enough to simply strive to “expand a digital presence”; stations and shows must engage in the hard work of building platform-specific content with their brands.

  1. Music, cultural references and themes for the modern age.

A few weeks ago on a seemingly benign episode of the TV show FOX NFL Sunday, panelists Jimmy Johnson and Terry Bradshaw offered an example of the type of cultural adaptation that sophisticated writers and producers provide their brands.  While describing a fight between two football players, Mr. Johnson said something to the effect of “when it comes to these two, what’s that Taylor Swift song?”, and then in synch with Mr. Bradshaw, “bad blood!”.  It is highly unlikely that these two 70+ men listen to Taylor Swift’s music with any regularity or would simultaneously pull the “Bad Blood” reference.  Yet, with excellent preparation that played into the greater cultural moment as well as the specific, current Taylor Swift/NFL overlap, in a six-second span, FOX NFL Sunday was able to give the illusion that their panelists are contemporary, hip and plugged into “what is going on”.  Is your station or show plugged into what’s going on?  Do you use contemporary music for bumps?  Are your images – including headshots and social content – modern, interesting and engaging or are they more akin to a miscellaneous real estate agent?  You are a performer in an entertainment business that, while certainly paying homage to the past and lineage of the industry, must be contemporary in aural and visual presentation.  This goes for everything from wardrobe on video and in photo to fonts on graphic design.

How often do you or your producer read Pitchfork to learn about new music that is breaking this week?  How often do you or your producer read Variety to understand major trends that are happening in the broader entertainment industry?  What live events are you broadcasting from, covering and building partnerships with?  You should strive to be cutting edge.

  1. We need a friend now more than ever.

This is something that goes for all audiences, but particularly for younger ones.  It’s OK, in fact, great to be yourself, present yourself from your generation and retain the authoritative stance that has built your brand.  Take a look at the success that sports talker Mike Francesa enjoyed by leaning into his persona – and in turn – developing legions of younger listeners that fell in love with his dad-like delivery and frequent meltdowns.

Few things are as uncomfortable to see as a 40+ person dressing or acting like a teenager.  Younger listeners want that senior, experienced, trusted friend to entertain them, inform them, and at times, tell them that everything is going to be OK.  You can help make sense of the world for younger audiences, something that is absolutely essential in the modern era.

Through attracting younger listeners by including them in the conversation, effectively delivering content on smartphones, presenting a cutting-edge entertainment product and continuing to serve as a trusted friend, news/talk radio can greatly expand its reach, relevance and revenue.

To that point, some younger listeners who discover a radio station or show via any of the above entry points will likely work backwards to the traditional AM/FM dial.  Like the resurgence of vinyl records, AM radio in particular has the opportunity to become a hip delivery format for discerning younger listeners.

The big question is: are radio companies, stations and hosts prepared to do the hard work of reimaging their product?

 

Bill Bartholomew is a talk radio and podcast host/producer, journalist and musician based in Providence, Rhode Island. Email him at: william.f.bartholomew@gmail.com. 
Industry News

The 2023 Black Effect Podcast Festival

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Premiere Networks syndicated morning personality Charlamagne Tha God and iHeartRadio presented the first-ever Black Effect Podcast Festival at Pullman Yards in Atlanta on Saturday (4/22) designed to “highlight, uplift and amplify Black voices in the podcast industry.” The festival brought together thousands of podcast fans with the Black Effect Podcast Network’s top talent for a day of live podcast recordings from Black Effect’s most popular shows including “The 85 South Show,” “WHOREible Decisions,” “Big Facts,” and a special joint taping with “Reasonably Shady,” and “Checking In with Michelle Williams.” Additionally, the event included panel discussions aimed at aspiring and mentoring podcasters in the Black community with leading content creators and media executives. Pictured above is Charlamagne Tha God (center) with Black Effect Podcast Network president Dollie S. Bishop (front row, second from left) and the Black Effect Podcast team.

Industry News

Edison Research & NPR: “Hit Play, Boomer!”

By Holland Cooke
Consultant

“They have the time and tools to listen, they like spoken word contest,” and Edison Research president Larry Rosin reminds us, they’re big-money consumers.

Baby Boomers – born between 1946 and 1964 – are now age 59-77.  Those 55+ comprise 30% of total USA population.

Per Edison’s ongoing “Infinite Dial” research, and with data and listener videos captured for this study done with NPR:

— 55+ consume more than 3 hours and 39 minutes of audio PER DAY. And 78% own a smartphone. And “Boomers listen to way more radio than do their children and grandchildren.” And they’re “adopting online audio.”

— Nearly 2/3 of Boomers’ audio is consumed at home. “Only about a third of that group is still working…they have the time to listen to podcasts.” And home is the #1 podcast listening location.

— But compared to 25-54s, they’re podcast consumer laggards. Rosin sees opportunity: “They’ve entered the top of the sales funnel.”

Compared to 25-54s, Boomers are podcasting laggards.

— Many Boomers think podcasting is a time-shifted radio show.

— “Overwhelmingly,” 55+ podcast listeners prefer news-related podcasts.

— We need to explain how-to-listen better than “available as a podcast” and wherever-you-get-yours.

Broadcasters and podcasters: Know how busy you are, I don’t make this recommendation casually. It’s well-worth your time to see the on-demand replay of this informative webinar.

Now I’m off to fabulous, fabulous Las Vegas for the 2023 NAB Show. Look for my convention notes here next week.

Talkers contributor Holland Cooke (HollandCooke.com) is a consultant working at the intersection of broadcasting and the Internet. He is the author “Multiply Your Podcast Subscribers, Without Buying Clicks,” and the E-book and FREE on-air radio features “Inflation Hacks: Save Those Benjamins;” and.  Follow HC on Twitter @HollandCooke

Advice

Monday Memo: The Resourceful Podcaster, Parked

By Holland Cooke
Consultant

 

BLOCK ISLAND, RI — The pandemic shutdown changed the standard for remote broadcasting.

  • Cable news talking heads – previously on-set or in a professional studio elsewhere – began appearing at home. And TV’s aesthetic is forever changed. Webcam video is the good-enough new-normal, and “Zoom” has become a verb. On Twitter, witty @RoomRater does just that, critiquing screen shots from various shows. On my TV show, TALKERS publisher Michael Harrison predicted that the new generation of TV news/talk sets will resemble “Frasier’s living room,” the at-home look IN-studio, rather than the Lucite desk and garish casino-looking graphics that have been the norm. And shows are saving a bundle NOT-paying as much as a thousand dollars for remote studio time + to Uber guests who may only appear for several minutes. A local station interviewed my state rep sitting in his truck talking into his phone cam.’ It was “authentic.”

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