Monday Memo: Music Lessons For Talk Radio
By Holland Cooke
Consultant
Music radio’s competitors were vinyl, then tape, then CDs – before smartphone streaming and satellite radio offered more portability and variety. And before consolidation, broadcasters were under less of the revenue pressure that now commercializes many stations beyond listeners’ tolerance. TALKERS NAB Show coverage included Edison Research founder Larry Rosin lamenting “many, many [music] stations now loading all their spots into two interminable breaks per hour.” I cringe hearing FMs struggle to remain among listeners’ music appliances. And I fret that monologue-heavy talk radio is relinquishing interactive dialogue to social media.
Before moving to all-news, and eventually news/talk, I worked in music formats less-structured than today’s. So now I hear music radio as an outsider, more like a consumer. Which got me wondering: How does my format sound to music consultants? So, I asked several whose work I respect.
Beware the one-joke act
Mike McVay reckons that “listeners want to know a little bit about a lot of things,” a point other colleagues echo. Explaining that “music radio is all about variety,” adult contemporary specialist Gary Berkowitz: “To me, listeners are tired of all this political back and forth. Sure, it has its place, but it’s like if music radio only played five different artists!” Jon Holiday – who customizes station playlists for a variety of formats – asks “are talk listeners getting what they want?” Calling some formats “very artist-heavy,” he thinks stations were right to play so much Taylor Swift in 2024, certainly her year. And 2025 sure is Trump’s, but Holiday calls “banging the same drum all day, every day” the most common flaw he hears on talk radio.
McVay says listeners like “stories that pull on their heart strings. It’s why “NBC Nightly News” ends with a touching story. It’s not fluff. It’s information relief.” He also recommends topics you are likely to overhear at the next table during lunch: “Discretionary Time Information” (binge-worthy shows on Apple+, Max, Netflix). Health. And – lately more than ever – what Mike calls “purse” stories (think: eggs). Been to Costco? On weekends it’s mobbed. Ask any member and they’ll recite a shopping list of Kirkland-brand bargains.
Play the hits
When Gary Berkowitz – then an accomplished music programmer – took over stately WJR, he “approached it like it was a music station, the only difference was my ‘songs’ were my personalities, news coverage and, at the time, play-by-play of all the major Detroit teams.” He bought a jingle package “to ‘decorate’ the station;” and “got ‘JR involved with everything that was happening in Detroit. All I did was put it all together and present it like my top-40 upbringing taught me.”
I can relate. Before I programmed all-news WTOP, Washington, I had no news experience. I came from a music FM. The WTOP staff I inherited was impressive, and their work was solid, but the station wasn’t “programmed enough.” I was sent there to convert Cume to Average Quarter Hour – the blocking-and-tackling formatics fundamental to music radio. We owned “the Top news…instantly” image, and we said those very words LOTS. But research told us that traffic and weather were “the hits;” and how we presented them moved the needle.
Great talkers are great listeners
In every transaction, consumers now expect to interact; and “listeners like to hear others’ voices,” Mike McVay observes: “When the audience is comfortable enough to weigh in with an opinion, their own story, or a reaction, you’ve created a ‘friend circle.’” Jon Holiday tells morning shows he works with to “take time going into breaks to be topical and interact with callers.” And engage by texting and social media. And don’t just push-TO listeners. Be quick to REPLY, and you will make them feel special.
Yet, in three decades coaching talk hosts, the most unwelcome word I say seems to be “callers.” Imitating gifted Rush Limbaugh, many hosts are prone to windy monologue, rather than inviting the busy dialogue that makes a station sound popular (something local advertisers notice). DJs deftly weaving interactivity into music shows often sound more inviting than sermonizing talkers. Holiday remembers El Rushbo as “a master at having fun, particularly in his early days as a syndicated personality.”
Prescription: Local
Twenty years ago at the TALKERS conference, publisher Michael Harrison’s advice was elegantly simple: “Give them something they can’t get anywhere else.” Especially now, with so many non-local audio competitors. Regardless of format, helpful local information can increase Occasions of Tune-In per week.
Simply doing local news is a start. But does yours enable the listener by telling what an item means to him or her? On any given day, what you’re overhearing at lunch is something big that’s happening somewhere else. Can you explain the local impact? “National news needs to mean something to me, my community, my region or state,” according to McVay.
With weather so erratic in so many places, owning that image is gold. If you’re news/talk, don’t assume that you’re the market’s weather station. If you’re music, don’t assume you can’t be. Noting typical news/talk demographics, Jon Holiday surmises that, “as we get older, we seem to be more interested in weather.”
And as successful music stations have always done, show up! Gary Berkowitz had WJR go all-in on Detroit’s Thanksgiving Day parade, “with our people all over the parade route. It was better than the TV coverage!”
Holland Cooke (HollandCooke.com) is a consultant working the intersection of broadcasting and the Internet. Follow HC on Twitter @HollandCooke and connect on LinkedIn
lot of good listening and attention to what matters most to those in the communities they call home. Our news will talk about what people are talking about, be factual, and will ask the next question so people can reconnect with their local communities and schools in a way that journalism hasn’t consistently afforded in recent years. Online and social media disinformation is steadily driving people back to how they used to find out what’s happening, and Big Radio is well-positioned to meet this moment and lead the re-emergence of local radio news in this region and beyond.” Big Radio – owned by father and son Scott and Ben Thompson – owns and operates 10 radio stations in the Monroe, Freeport, Janesville, and Beloit, Wisconsin markets.
AM FM Digital-owned news/talk WVMT, Burlington on May 30. Wright told his audience, “I’ve made the decision to move on… I’m going to miss it. But I’ve never been a morning person and getting up at 4:00 am is a bear for me… once I get here the adrenaline gets me going but my wife and I want to travel. We haven’t seen nearly enough of this country. When you have a health event like I had a couple months ago, it puts things into focus for you.” Wright says it will have been six-and-a-half years that he’s been hosting the program on WVMT.
Richmond to run for lieutenant governor in Virginia. Now, his opponent for the Repubican nomination – Pat Herrity – has exited the race due to health issues. Reid is an unusual candidate in that he’s openly gay but a conservative Republican who says he’s “against boys in girls’ sports and the extreme trans-agenda being forced upon our children.” Prior to his work at WRVA, Reid once served as communications chief for then-Virginia Governor George Allen. WRVA named Rich Herrera host of the morning show last month. 
starting Monday (4/21). KTTH program director Jason Antebi says, “We’re thrilled to welcome Dana Loesch to KTTH’s weekday lineup. Dana’s bold, no-nonsense style and sharp political insights have built a loyal national following, and we’re confident her wit and fearless commentary will strike a chord with our Seattle audience. She’s a powerhouse voice in conservative media, and we’re proud to have her on board.” Loesch states, “I love my listeners in the Emerald City, and I’m thrilled to now be part of the great lineup at KTTH. Thanks to Jason and his team at Bonneville Seattle for making this opportunity possible.”
state and local information. Earl Ingram, host of “The Earl Ingram Show,” will join “Mornings with Pat Kreitlow” on 540AM WAUK in Milwaukee and appear as a regular guest on other network shows. In other moves, “Matenaer On Air” with Jane Matenaer and Greg Bach shifts one hour earlier, airing from 9:00 am to 11:00 am. “The Thom Hartmann Program” returns to its live air time (11:00 am to 2:00 pm). “The Todd Allbaugh Show” moves to 2:00 pm to 4:00 pm and “The Maggie Daun Show” now airs from 4:00 pm to 6:00 pm. Civic Media CEO Sage Weil says, “We are excited to bring a more robust and flexible morning show to the state, and to reposition our best shows to serve our uniquely Wisconsin audience. This new approach will provide the flexibility to spotlight our local voices that focus on what is happening in our local communities, from Earl Ingram in Milwaukee to Chad Holmes in Wausau, and to share that content both on and off the air.”
12:00 noon. “Wisconsin’s Morning News” with Vince Vitrano & Erik Bilstad, will air from 6:00 am until 10:00 am and the station’s midday news show, “Wisconsin’s Midday News” with Greg Matzek & Jessica Tighe, will air from 12:00 noon to 3:00 pm. The change eliminates Brey’s one-hour 9:00 am show and moves business-
focused “The Upswing” with Jeff Sherman (heard from 11:00 am to 12:00 noon) to Saturdays and available as a podcast. Brey says, “Steve first invited me to come onto his show back in 2020 and we hit it off immediately. He is largely the reason I have a career in radio at all. After years of being a guest on each other’s shows or a fill in host, I am so excited that we finally have the chance to tussle with the biggest political stories of the day with each other every weekday. We rarely agree but we always have fun and I think that’s the kind of energy that makes good radio and interesting conversations.” Scaffidi adds, “I’m thrilled to finally be able to work with Kristin on a daily basis. We recently launched our podcast, You Need to Listen, but having two hours with her each weekday morning will offer our fans and listeners a chance to hear our unique perspectives on the news of the day.”
naming Thom Brennaman the station’s new morning drive host. Late last week, Mike McConnell told his listeners that he was retiring from the station and that Monday (4/7) would be his last day. Brennaman worked for WLW calling Cincinnati Reds games but stepped down after being caught on a hot mic uttering a homophobic slur during an MLB game on August 19, 2020. Brennaman has been working for the CW calling football games. 
comes after Woodward closed on the $4.3 million acquisition of four stations in the market from Neuhoff Media last fall. From that deal, the company spun WCVS-FM to Educational Media Foundation. Woodward’s Springfield market manager Kevin O’Dea says, “All of us at Woodward Community Media look forward to the addition of the Mid-West Family stations to our lineup here in Springfield. These four stations along with our current lineup including Channell450.com and our Digital Services will allow us to enhance our local commitment to our listeners, advertising partners and the Springfield and Central Illinois Community.
from using his radio and TV skills to raise awareness of issues that are important to him. In a piece by KPRC-TV, Houston, Patrick’s efforts to draw attention to courier service lottery sales and legal marijuana in Texas via “amateur investigative-style videos” are highlighted. Patrick tells the station that his efforts are just for the sake of theatrics. “It’s not theatrics to say, ‘look at me.’ It’s theatrics to tell a story, so that people can connect with what we’re doing here and why we’re doing it.” He adds that most people are busy and don’t pay attention to the day-to-day goings-on at the state capitol. “Our job is to break through that.” 
has ended operations of news/talk KLIK-AM and its translator K278CT. The station ceased broadcasting on March 14. 
104.1 that had been the home to hip hop WHHL-FM “HOT 104.1.” In return, KMOX gives up translator K254CR at 98.7 to the hip hop outlet. These changes become effective on March 24. Audacy St. Louis and Wichita SVP and market manager Becky Domyan says, “We’re thrilled to expand KMOX’s reach and bring the trusted news and entertainment our listeners rely on, as well as Cardinals baseball, on an enhanced FM signal that covers the greater St. Louis region.”
Salem Reporter says engineer Ian Carlson was at the station we he saw the windows shattered one by one. He says the glass flew in with such force that it sent shards 30 feet down the station’s hallway. He tells the Salem Reporter, “It was absolutely terrifying, and I think it was intended to terrify.” The report says that police found no evidence that anyone tried to enter the building and it was unclear what caused the damage. Station general manager Jacqueline Smith says, “From our perspective, it wasn’t vandalism. It was a targeted attack.” Photo: Salem Reporter. 
were three or four minutes. Under the old five-minute listening qualifier rule, none of this tuning would have received listening credit. Effective with the January 2025 PPM survey, Nielsen is now crediting tuning occasions that are three minutes or greater. What are the results so far? First, drive times and weekends experience the greatest growth. Comparing January 2024 to January 2025 for persons 12+ and 25-54 reveals double-digit growth for all dayparts. Weekends and drives times have the greatest increases. Second, AM/FM radio’s listening profile now skews younger: Every major buying demographic has a higher composition of listening. Persons 65+ is the only demographic where AM/FM radio’s audience composition is reduced. Persons 25-54, AM/FM radio’s most popular buying demographic, experiences the largest increase in audience composition. Persons 18-49 have the next largest growth. And third, format shares remain stable. Versus October 2024, PPM January 2025 format shares are very consistent. An uptick in news/talk AQH composition is most likely more due to a heavier news cycle (major weather stories and a new president) than a PPM methodology enhancement. In local markets, there is more share variation. 
York director of marketing and promotions Emily Magelof says, “David’s creativity, vision, and dedication have been instrumental in driving our brands. We are excited for him to continue elevating our promotional efforts, ensuring even greater success in the future.” Montague comments, “I am truly honored for this accomplishment and excited for the future. I want to thank my support system at iHeartMedia, friends and family for their continued confidence and believing in me.”
12 years with the station. A report in The Chattanoogan says that Joyce, who hosted the late morning “Brian Joyce Unfiltered” program, “parted ways” with the station last week. Joyce joined WGOW in 2012 and became part of the morning drive show in 2018, alongside Jim Reynolds and Kevin West. In 2023, Cumulus retooled the morning show bringing Jed Mescon aboard to co-host with Reynolds and Joyce moved to the late morning slot. 
the Cumulus Media news/talk station on November 7. Sutton began working full time at the station in 1997. He tells WHTM that he does not plan on retiring. “Tomorrow is the first time in 52 years that I don’t have to work, but I hope that doesn’t last long because I am not retiring. God is in control, and I know there are new opportunities ahead and a new chapter in my life.” Sutton says he and producer Mark McKenzie were dismissed due to budget cuts. 
Departments, sheriff of Bernalillo County, head of public safety for the State of New Mexico under Governor Gary Johnson. Cumulus Albuquerque vice president and market manager Jeff Berry states, “I am SO excited for Darren’s return to Cumulus Albuquerque as program director. His passion for radio and vision for the future are contagious. We are fortunate to have someone with his background re-join our industry in a leadership position. Welcome home, Darren!” White comments, “I am honored to accept the position of program director for News Radio KKOB and KNML the Sports Animal, and I am humbled by the confidence Cumulus Media has placed in me for this exciting new challenge. Having been a part of Cumulus for over a decade, I have seen firsthand the incredible dedication and talent of the teams at both stations. With a proven history of delivering provocative, engaging, and informative radio that is second to none, I look forward to building on that legacy by attracting new listeners and continuing to bring dynamic programming to our loyal radio family.”
contract. Bartholomew tells TALKERS, “After two successful years where my show increased the numbers of the previous, political show by as much as 350%, I have re-signed with News Talk 820 and 93.3 WBAP in Dallas, TX. So, I’ll be holding down the 9a-11a slot for at least another 2 years.” 
loved my time there, but circumstances change and it was time to move on. I’m deciding next steps, and took some time away to collect myself and reassess my priorities. I still love telling stories, and want to continue to do so. What form that takes is still to be decided. It may end up that I start giving a more pointed (read: opinionated) take on some news and issues than I was able to before. But I also cherish impartial reporting and fairness. It’s the backbone of what I’ve always done and strive to do. That’s why I have remained silent thus far. But I continue to read and listen to both sides of the issues critical to Washington. I remain committed and engaged, even if I don’t have the same platform to speak through.”
The fourth of four rounds of ratings data from Nielsen Audio’s July 2024 PPM survey has been released for 12 markets including Austin, Raleigh, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Nashville, Providence, Norfolk, Jacksonville, West Palm Beach, Greensboro, Memphis, and Hartford. The survey period covered June 20 through July 17. Today, TALKERS magazine editor Mike Kinosian presents his Ratings Takeaways from this group of markets. In Raleigh, iHeartMedia’s news/talk WTKK-FM adds three-tenths to finish with an 8.9 share (weekly, 6+ AQH share) that keeps it locked in the #3 rank, while Curtis Media’s news/talk WPTF is up one-tenth for a 0.6 share finish good for the #23 rank. In Milwaukee, iHeartMedia’s news/talk WISN adds a half share to finish with a 13.0 share that keeps it ranked #1 for the eleventh straight month. (Good Karma Brands’ crosstown competitor news/talk WTMJ ceased subscribing to Nielsen several months ago.) In Nashville, Cumulus Media’s news/talk WWTN-FM rises 1.2 shares for a 6.7 share finish that lifts it to the #3 rank, while iHeartMedia’s news/talk WLAC adds three-tenths to finish with a 1.3 share and remains ranked #18. 
iHeartMedia’s news/talk WFLF, Orlando, airing from 7:00 pm to 10:00 pm. iHeartMedia Orlando SVP of programming Ken Holiday states, “We are thrilled to welcome Jesse Kelly to WFLA Orlando! Starting Monday, July 15, Jesse will bring his unfiltered and unapologetic insights to our listeners. From history to politics to pizza, Jesse’s show has it all in a no-nonsense kind of way. Whether you’re a veteran like Jesse or just a good ol’ fashioned red-blooded American, the show has something for everyone.”
radio and television in St. Louis – will join news/talk KTRS, St. Louis to co-host the midday show with incumbent Wendy Wiese. Cusumano was most recently with sports talk KFNS, St. Louis until owner Dave Zobrist pulled the plug on local sports hosts and installed FOX Sports Radio. Zobrist is putting KFNS up for sale. The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports that Cusumano is taking over the co-hosting duties from Jennifer Blome after her recent retirement.
The third of four rounds of ratings data from Nielsen Audio’s June 2024 PPM survey has been released for 12 markets including Portland, Charlotte, San Antonio, Sacramento, Pittsburgh, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Orlando, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Kansas City, and Columbus. The survey period covered May 23 through June 19. Today, TALKERS managing editor Mike Kinosian presents his Ratings Takeaways from this group of markets. In Portland, Alpha Media’s news/talk KXL-FM drops eight-tenths for a 5.0 share (weekly, 6+ AQH share) finish that leaves it ranked #5 in the market, while iHeartMedia news/talk KEX adds one-tenth for a 1.8 share that lifts it to the #18 rank. In San Antonio, iHeartMedia’s news/talk WOAI rises three-tenths to a 3.1 share and remains ranked #13, while Alpha Media’s news/talk KTSA dips a half share to finish with a 1.4 share leaving it ranked #22 in the market. In Salt Lake City, Bonneville’s news/talk KSL-AM/FM rises 1.2 shares for a 6.1 share finish that lifts it to the #2 rank, while iHeartMedia’s news/talk KNRS-AM/FM is steady with a 3.1 share but rises to the #12 rank.