Mickey Luckoff – TALKERS magazine

Sabo Sez: The Smartest Minds in the Radio Room

By TALKERS | September 10, 2026September 10, 2026 by TALKERS

By Walter Sabo
A.K.A. Walter Sterling
Host, The Other Side of Midnight
WABC, New York / Red Apple Audio Networks

When in doubt, I recall smart quotes from people in our business who are successful, well paid, kind, and future oriented. I have always focused on what’s next rather than what’s been. These observations drive good results:

“Citytv of Canada is the model local TV News and has been for 50 years.” – Strategist, John Parikal

“Progress moves in many directions. Imagine if cable came first, then someone invented a way to send shows over the air.” – publisher / broadcaster, Michael Harrison

“The goal is a playlist of one song.” – Al Brady Law, a kind mentor and brilliant programmer.

“An Urban station should sound like music bouncing off the rooftops in Harlem on a July night.” – Frankie Crocker

“Top 40 will always be a successful format because by definition it plays the most popular songs of the day.” – Allen Shaw, former vice chairman of Beasley Broadcasting.

“We have a business plan; our stations have to be number 1.” – Robert McAllan, president emeritus Press Broadcasting / founder of WTKS-FM Real Radio. Orlando / New Jersey 101.5.

“One day all music will be on FM and all talk will be on AM.” – Jean Shepherd, WOR Radio host, 1964.

GM Mickey Luckoff on why number 1 KGO, San Francisco moved like an express train: “I hire hosts who have done Top 40. I can teach them Talk; I can’t teach them Radio.”

“My staff just can’t barge into the studio when I’m on, they have to understand this takes concentration, the job is to get to the next thing.” – Howard Stern

“It’s a simple business; people make it hard.” – Edward F. Mclaughlin president EIB network.

“My business decisions are always based on common sense.” – John Catsimatidis, owner, WABC Radio.

“When we release a movie, I stand outside the theatre on opening night and talk to the audience members as they file out. That’s the best research we do.” – Leonard Goldenson, founding chairman ABC Inc.

“No, I don’t watch many TV shows because I know all the stories.” – Fred Silverman, program chief CBS, ABC, NBC.

About streaming music services: “There has always been a box of records next to the radio.” – Bob Pittman, CEO, IHeart.

Tom O’Neil, founder, RKO General Radio, “Pay whatever you have to for a morning man, a production director, and for equipment to make the loudest signal, the rest you’ll have to beg for.”

Walter Sabo has been a C-Suite action partner for companies such as SiriusXM, Hearst, Press Broadcasting, Gannett, RKO General, and many other leading media outlets. His company, HITVIEWS, in 2007, was the first to identify and monetize video influencers. His nightly show “The Other Side of Midnight” is heard on WABC, New York and the Red Apple Audio Network 1:00 am – 5:00 am. His syndicated show, “Sterling On Sunday,” from Talk Media Network, airs 10:00 pm-1:00 am ET, and is now in its 10th year of success. He can be reached by email at sabowalter@gmail.com. He can be phoned at 646-678-1110.

Industry Views

SABO SEZ: Common Sense is Always the Solution

By Editor | April 2, 2026April 2, 2026 by Editor

By Walter Sabo
A.K.A. Walter M Sterling
WPHT, Philadelphia
Sterling Every Damn Night
Sterling on Sunday Syndicated, TMN
Another Side of Midnight, WABC, New York

In 1952, the success formula for today’s radio was discovered and put into practice by two hungry entrepreneurs: Todd Storz and Gordon McLendon. Both men owned dying radio stations in medium and major markets. The industry was suffering from a lack of purpose or solutions due to the advent of television which drove the migration of hit network radio shows to television. Lucille Ball, Bob Hope, and Gertrude Berg were on radio first.

Storz and McLendon developed “Top 40” with their own brains and money. Top 40 was research and focus group based, as well as. Storz tried it first in Omaha, then Kansas City and Miami. McLendon in Dallas, Houston, Minneapolis, and New Orleans. The formula was simple but not obvious. Their common-sense solution worked in all formats: music and talk.

Ruth Meyer was Storz’s PD in Kansas City and I worked with her at ABC. She was very clear when outlining the Storz history, “It was all Todd.”

Success ingredients

The formula: Target one demographic. Play their hits – often. Call out the names of as many people in the audience as possible – make the listener a star. Present with enthusiasm. Promote at every local crowd event possible. Repeat.

All of the McLendon and Storz stations grew instantly, usually to number one.

That ingredient list works repeatedly for station after station for decades. But, and here’s the but, all of those ingredients have to be in the recipe. Leave out promotion, for example, or research, and it doesn’t work. But the full ingredient list does work for every single format.

I asked Mickey Luckoff, who ran talker KGO as the number one station in San Francisco for most of our lives, how he selected his on air talk hosts to which he replied, “They all come from top 40 because I can teach them talk but I can’t teach them radio.” His promotions were non-stop and smart, TV campaigns were non-stop and research, yes, research – non-stop!

When Adult Contemporary was evolving, my team was responsible for the NBC FM properties. Corporate finance people who went to Wharton urged me to go slow, layer in expenses when launching this odd new format. I knew layering was a recipe – for failure!!! All the ingredients had to be rolled out at once. In 1981, WYNY in New York had a $2 million dollar cash and a $2 million barter promotion budget. Result, a $3 million profit and a 5 share. Thanks to PD Pete Salant and GM Al Brady Law. We used the Storz/McLendon recipe with AC music and Dr. Ruth, it obviously works.

WGMS-FM was a classical station in Washington, DC. When it was owned by RKO and run by visionary Jerry Lyman, it applied the Storz/McLendon recipe to classical music. Their promos announced that WGMS played “Real Oldies – Your favorites from the 1600s, 1700s and 1800s!” WGMS aired a tight playlist of hits. Special weekends were popular, such as a “Beethoven Weekend” with t-shirt giveaways. The station was a profit monster, top 10 in Washington DC.

Five years ago, WABC-AM was about 28th in NYC as a result of cutting costs, by god the cost cutting was epic and so was the failure. Today, John Catsimatidis, the owner, and Chad Lopez, the president, have grown the station to a 4 share and number eight in New York. An AM talk station, number eight and growing. What? How? They put in all the ingredients. The station is data driven. The talent is live. External paid ads run for WABC almost every single day. The air team goes to local events to meet the crowds. WABC airs live listener music requests and dedications on the weekend with Cousin Bruce Morrow and Joe Piscopo – live. Did I mention live?

Today not history

The team is happy. They are making radio. This isn’t nostalgia. Mr. Cats is a very current based businessman who expects results. Like Storz and McLendon he is an entrepreneur, a private owner deploying common sense. He’s doing what is proven, what works. Bravo.

Conclusion: There is nothing wrong with radio. Just stop. Include every ingredient in the proven recipe; expect stunning results.

Walter Sabo has been a C-Suite action partner for companies such as SiriusXM, Hearst, Press Broadcasting, Gannett, RKO General, and many others. His nightly show “Walter Sterling Every Damn Night” is heard on WPHT, Philadelphia. His syndicated show, “Sterling On Sunday,” from Talk Media Network, airs 10:00 pm-1:00 am ET, and is now in its 10th year of success. He recently began hosting “Another Side of Midnight” weekends on WABC, New York. He can be reached by email at sabowalter@gmail.com or phoned at 646-678-1110.

Industry News

The Damning Myth of Spoken Word Radio: High Time Spent Listening (TSA) and Low Cume

By TALKERS | September 12, 2023September 12, 2023 by TALKERS

By Walter Sabo
Consultant, Sabo Media
A.K.A. Walter Sterling
Radio Host, “Sterling On Sunday”
Talk Media Network

Dependency upon a PPM panel to deliver high time spent listening is a bad business model. Would you rather count on one person listening for one hour or four people listening for 15 minutes? Right.

A good music format program director knows exactly how to program talk radio in a PPM environment. Oddly, when a music programmer has the privilege of programming a talk station they seem to forget all of their programming knowledge. Both formats are measured by exactly the same technology and therefore if it “works” in music, it works in talk.

The reason “New Jersey 101.5” quickly became the highest cuming FM talk station in the world – for 20+ years – is because when Bob McAllan, Jay Sorensen, Perry Simon, John Dziuba and I designed it, we had a simple process: Build a music station that takes a lot of phone calls. It was always programmed like a top 40 station and 33 years later it obviously worked.

The reason “Real Radio 104.1 in Orlando” was the only Howard Stern station that did not suffer the expense of having to change format when he was recruited to SiriusXM Satellite Radio was because the station was built as a heavily formatted music station that took a lot of phone calls. Note that Real Radio 104.1 and New Jersey 101.5 both air music non-stop on the weekends for the single purpose of targeting a specific cume demographic. It obviously worked.

What are the key elements of a music format that should be applied to talk in order to build cume?

Please, god, don’t flag the “breaks.”
Every show had a specific pace based on topic set up time and call length time which gave the station a consistent rhythm and sound. All day.
No “records” from home! No personal sound effects, jingles or that crap.
Constantly sell ahead. No yesterday calls, yesterday references. Sell what’s next.
Assume every single listener just tuned in. Explain the topic and give the phone number obsessively.
Listener driven not host driven. Every host is valuable and gifted but if a host makes the mistake of quitting, the interest needs and tastes of the listener are constant and can be reflected by the next host. A constant.

Mickey Luckoff, the brilliant president of KGO, San Francisco for decades explained why he hired most of his hosts from top 40 radio because, “I can teach them TALK but I can’t teach them radio.” BTW yes, even 34-year morning host Jim Dunbar worked at WLS and KQV as a top 40 jock immediately before joining KGO to host a talk show.

Walter Sabo was a pioneer in the concept of targeted talk which allows a station to precisely reach a chosen demographic. He has had a robust list of consulting clients including, SiriusXM Satellite Radio, Conde Naste, CBS, Press Broadcasting, RKO General, Hearst, Fred Silverman Productions, and many more. His company HITVIEWS was the first major player to recognize and monetize online video stars known as “influencers.” He is on the nominating board of the Radio Hall of Fame. Reach him at 646.678.1110 or walter@sabomedia.com. Discover Sabo’s network radio show here: waltersterlingshow.com.