Category: Industry Views

Industry Views

Monday Memo: Double-Check Baseball Sponsors’ In-Game Copy

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Holland Cooke
Consultant

Spots that crow “Baseball is back!” were real welcome in April… and sound real OLD by now.Even if that’s not a copy point, can you freshen the client’s pitch? Simply asking sends-the-message that you’re on-the-ball… and you didn’t wander away once the deal closed.

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And buy ‘em some peanuts and Cracker Jack. Every time we’ve taken advertisers up to the radio booth in a Major League Baseball park, they felt like VIPs. Do selfies with the announce team and that breathtaking view in the background, and they’ll show EVERYONE.

Holland Cooke (HollandCooke.com) is a consultant working at the intersection of broadcasting and the Internet. He is the author of “Close Like Crazy: Local Direct Leads, Pitches & Specs That Earned the Benjamins” and  “The Local Radio Advantage: Your 4-Week Tune-In Tune-Up,” and “Confidential: Negotiation Checklist for Weekend Talk Radio.” Follow HC on Twitter @HollandCooke and connect on LinkedIn

Industry Views

Severe Weather is The New Normal

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

imToday, consultant Holland Cooke writes, “With 850-plus confirmed 2024 tornadoes – just halfway through the season – each night’s network TV newscast can make you “thankful that we don’t live THERE…”  And with more gnarly weather on the way this week across much of the USA, he reckons that, “regardless of your format, your station can be the weather button that listeners will push, and advertisers can sponsor.” And he suggests a tactic proven over 80 years ago. Read it here.

Industry Views

Pending Business: In Car

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Steve Lapa
Lapcom Communications Corp
President

imWhat happened to us? Unless we move quickly, the radio business stands to lose the final frontier: in-car listening.

The numbers tell a riveting story.

The good news is 92% of Americans listen to the radio every week.

The bad news, according to Edison Research, is only 68% of homes have a radio. All of us who were trained on the 90%-plus penetration of in-home radios are officially out of touch. The in-home radio listening experience is fading fast and there is no trend in sight to reverse it. Smart speakers aside, that bedside clock radio that helped millions wake up every morning is a silent reminder of days past. That 90%-plus penetration number will soon be the domain of Smart TV as 91% of homes have internet. That’s more homes than have radios.

The good news is 73% of drivers listen to the radio in the car.

Nearly three out of every four drivers tune in. The bad news is emerging retail media will soon be the final purchase influencer, online and on location. By 2025 more ad dollars (nearly $47 billion) are projected to be invested in retail media than TV. If you are still pitching, “in-car radio is the last purchase influence before the shopper steps into the store,” you are joining the growing group of outdated radio sellers. Let’s stop the head-in-the-sand approach and review what will have better sales power in the current landscape.

1. In-car listening is typically a shared attention experience. Adjust your commercials to work in the in-car environment. Simplify the messaging, repeat critical sales points, make the call to action easy to understand and implement.

2. Frequency sells. Forever the foundation of solid radio sales, repetition works, and compelling messaging can be commuter friendly.

3. Do your homework. If your community relies on several major industries, learn how the new remote workforce impacts in car listening. Different commute patterns may be in play. Know your marketplace before you suggest a schedule.

4. Seasonal trends. Summer is here. What changes are impacting your market?

Is there a go-to resource for advertiser info on your station website?

Some things will never change:

1. Auto is typically the #1 ad category. One of the best places to start the sales cycle of buying or leasing a new car is in the car of that money draining repair clunker and radio is right there!

2. Three out of four commuters drive alone and when you have someone one-on-one messaging will be heard.

3. In-car radio listening still is and always will be that uniquely personal experience.

Finally, owners and top-level management must learn to help sellers adjust to ever changing world of how to work with radio advertisers to meet the consumer where they are today.

Steve Lapa is the president of Lapcom Communications Corp. based in Palm Beach Gardens, FL. Lapcom is a media sales, marketing, and development consultancy. Contact Steve Lapa via email at: Steve@Lapcomventures.com

Industry Views

WABC, New York Morning Host Sid Rosenberg is This Week’s Guest on Harrison Podcast

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

77WABC, New York morning show host Sid Rosenberg is this week’s guest on the award-winning PodcastOne series, “The Michael Harrison Interview.” Rosenberg, who is a Jewish native New Yorker and outspoken supporter of Israel, risked his life this past Friday evening (5/17) on a Brooklyn-bound subway train standing up and defending an orthodox Jewish man being threatened with physical assault by an obscenity-spewing, anti-Semitic African American man who appeared dangerously amped up on drugs. The story is compelling and offers insight into the hate and dangers that are on full display in the Big Apple. Harrison and Rosenberg discuss the dangerous spread of anti-Semitism in America, the disturbing behavior of Gen Z on college campuses, and the rise in crime on the streets of America’s leading urban centers. This powerful conversation is not to be missed. Listen to the podcast in its entirety here. 

Industry Views

Monday Memo: WHY Are You Podcasting?

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Holland Cooke
Consultant

imBecause you can? Because you aren’t doing AM/FM radio? Because you are on radio, but can’t-do-there what you can-do podcasting? Because you are making money podcasting?

Podcasters I help must first survive a conversation about WHY. “It’s a success…if…” WHAT?

Wired magazine co-founder Kevin Kelly reckons that “a creator, such as an artist, musician, photographer, craftsperson, performer, animator, designer, video maker, or author – in other words, anyone producing works of art – needs to acquire only 1,000 true fans to make a living.”

Devour these four pages he wrote – a genuine whack-on-the-side-of-the-head – and the structure for my coaching: http://getonthenet.com/1000TrueFans.pdf

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What you read there may change how you approach the podcast you’re doing… or nudge you into podcasting if you don’t. As does the Edison Research 2024 Infinite Dial survey. Here’s that download, and a cautionary video from TALKERS publisher Michael Harrison: http://getonthenet.com/podcasting.html

Next Monday is Memorial Day here in the USA, so I’ll be back here on “…the third of June.” If you work mornings, this is my last column you will see before your show that day, so make a note in your bumper file: Bobbie Gentry, “Ode to Billy Joe.”

Holland Cooke (HollandCooke.com) is a consultant working at the intersection of broadcasting and the Internet. He is the author of “The Local Radio Advantage: Your 4-Week Tune-In Tune-Up,” and “Close Like Crazy: Local Direct Leads, Pitches & Specs That Earned the Benjamins” and “Confidential: Negotiation Checklist for Weekend Talk Radio.” Follow HC on Twitter @HollandCooke and connect on LinkedIn

Industry Views

WIP Sports Talk Pioneer Howard Eskin is This Week’s Guest on Harrison Podcast

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

Philadelphia sports talk media founding father Howard Eskin is this week’s guest on the award-winning PodcastOne series, “The Michael Harrison Interview.” Eskin’s stellar career in radio and TV goes all the way back to 1972 and his impact on local media in the City of Brotherly Love is indelible. He still maintains an active presence as sports radio personality for WIP-FM 94.1 and anchor at FOX 29 News in addition to being a sideline reporter for the Eagles Radio Network. Eskin has hosted/anchored more than 8,000 sports radio programs in his career, which is likely the most by any sports radio personality in American broadcasting history. Harrison and Eskin discuss the state of sports, media, big money, the impact of gambling and the generational divide per the multi-award-winning host’s recent commencement speech at Goldey-Beacom College in Wilmington, Delaware where he received an honorary doctorate in acknowledgement of his contributions to media, culture and philanthropy. Don’t miss this! Listen to the podcast in its entirety here.

Industry Views

Sabo Sez: Try It, You’ll Like It

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Walter Sabo
CEO, Sabo Media Partners
A.K.A. Walter M Sterling
Host, Talk Media Network

imThis week, I started a five-night show on Audacy’s WPHT, Philadelphia. Thank you, market president David Yadgaroff. Because of my tenure in the industry, I received a flattering, humbling number of emails from colleagues in radio. THANK YOU. The support and encouragement are appreciated and certainly needed!

There was a pattern to the notes beyond the kind thoughts for my future. Almost every note hoped that the example of my show’s non-political content would compel other broadcasters to stop their political speeches and start a broader, real-life focused conversation. These emails were from CEOs, program directors, news directors, owners, and hosts. My response is, why me? If the note writer believes broader content would be good for their business, why don’t they put it on the air, today?

It would be fun to speculate on the answer to that question. It would also be pointless because the real answer is…  just do it!

Radio executives love to copy success. I am mystified by why they are copying failure. Almost all politically focused talk stations are declining in audience and gaining in demographic age. Daytime TV talk shows cover much broader topics that capture younger demos, are growing in audience and, as a category, generate $5 billion in annual revenue.

Broader topic menus work well. Thanks to enlightened owners, my company has launched many stations and hosts that are not political. Of course it works, life is what your target listener is discussing with their friends right now. Follow my example. Your audience will grow, and you’ll generate more revenue.

(EDITOR’S NOTE:  Walter Sabo will be appearing on a panel discussion titled, “Beyond Politics” at TALKERS 2024: Radio and Beyond on Friday, June 7 at Hofstra University on Long Island. For information, click here.

Walter Sabo has been a C Suite action partner for companies such as SiriusXM, Hearst, Press Broadcasting, Gannett, RKO General and many other leading media outlets. His company HITVIEWS, in 2007, was the first to identify and monetize video influencers. HITVIEWS clients included Pepsi, FOX TV, Timberland, Microsoft, and CBS Television. He can be reached at sabowalter@gmail.com. His nightly show “Walter Sterling at Night” is debuted this week on WPHT, Philadelphia. His syndicated show, “Sterling On Sunday,” from Talk Media Network, airs 10:00 pm-1:00 am ET, now in its 10th year of success.

Industry Views

Pending Business: Who Cares?

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Steve Lapa
Lapcom Communications Corp
President

imDoes anyone care anymore?

The latest Pew Research study, “Americans’ Changing Relationship with Local News,” confirmed a personal experience last week. More on that later.

If you believe the survey, almost 80% of us say we no longer follow local news very closely. It doesn’t matter if you live in a top 10 all-news radio market, or a city with a heritage news/talk/information station. The survey says we just lost interest and stopped consuming local news.

Wait, what happened? Real estate taxes in many communities are through the roof. The cost of insurance, health care and basic groceries are the highest in years. Some hospitals in local communities are rumored to be discussing charging in advance for certain procedures. How about your local mall; is it still safe during weekdays? Is your local school system better or worse post covid? And those local roads; are they still in great shape? All of this in addition to the college campus in your community that may be unraveling or not. Did 80% of us really stop following and talking about local news? Perhaps it is just easier and less expensive for on-air talent, producers, and programmers to focus on Trump trials and Gaza. Do we serve the audience what we think they want and forget local?

My first-hand “we don’t care to cover local news” experience was a frightening eye opener. As I was traveling South along Florida’s I-95, a truck hauling propane gas caught fire as it was parked on the right shoulder of the Interstate. The tanks started exploding and a roaring fire emitting huge dark plumes of smoke stopped traffic for miles. Our car was second in line in the standstill, not more than 250 feet away from the fire. We could feel the explosions from the propane as local police motioned us to back up. We were speechless in our car watching this horrific scene. My fiancé searched her mobile phone for any breaking news report. Nothing. I kept looking to the sky for local news chopper, or a local news team, cruiser, or SUV with reporters to cover this from the ground. Nothing. Would a local news/talk radio station take a caller with an eye-witness account? Nobody broke in with a report.

Thankfully, local police, Florida State troopers, firefighters and Special Ops all arrived on the scene in minutes. Still no local news team. First responders did an amazing job getting this dangerous propane fire under control. After a 30-minute delay, we were finally directed past the burned out remains of the truck. As I scanned the rear-view mirror, the radio, the sky above me and the opposite side of I-95, there was still no local news reporting.

No wonder 80% of us stopped following local news very closely, nobody cares to report the story.

Steve Lapa is the president of Lapcom Communications Corp. based in Palm Beach Gardens, FL. Lapcom is a media sales, marketing, and development consultancy. Contact Steve Lapa via email at: Steve@Lapcomventures.com.

Industry Views

Monday Memo: A.I. Cannot Do This Commercial

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Holland Cooke
Consultant

imActor Hugh Grant’s Tweet called it “The destruction of the human experience. Courtesy of Silicon Valley.” He was reacting to Apple’s TV commercial depicting a hydraulic press crushing a piano, a record player, paint, books, cameras, and other creative tools Artificial Intelligence emulates, via the new iPad Pro.

With many now fearful that technology will obsolete their jobs, Apple yanked the spot: “We missed the mark with this video and we’re sorry.”

Following my recent column cautioning how ChatGPT-generated ads can be cliché-riddled, several TALKERS readers have sent me even more of the cringe-worthy catch-phrases (“And much more!”) that reduce too many ads to blah-blah-blah.

Various vendors are offering – and, increasingly, stations are using – Artificial Intelligence apps to script, and even voice, commercials. It’s a time-saver alright, but is the output compelling?

In some cases, there’s a fill-in-the-blanks form. Other apps crawl the prospect’s website for copy points. When I’m given demonstrations, I suggest a business I’m familiar with. And I’ve yet to hear a script that captures what makes the business special.

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For one such demo,’ I chose a restaurant we frequent often, here on Block Island. The copy generated was painfully generic. So – to make the point – I went old-school, using the method that has consistently produced results for client stations and in my freelance work.

My video describing the process “Radio Advertising, In Their Own Words” includes several examples… and here’s another.

The AI robot cannot possibly feel-the-feel anyone who has dined there knows… and can’t spot this opportunity: The chef himself is a story, as entertained customers discover: http://getonthenet.com/TheBarn-BrianHebert-1.mp3

And here’s The Free Prize Inside: People tell advertisers who appear in their spots, “I heard you on the radio!”

More work than simply plugging-into an AI app? You bet. The interview from which I excerpted the sound bites you’ll hear took all of five minutes, and I voiced and assembled the spot in under half an hour.

Everything we do is storytelling.

Holland Cooke (HollandCooke.com) is a consultant working at the intersection of broadcasting and the Internet. He is the author of “Close Like Crazy: Local Direct Leads, Pitches & Specs That Earned the Benjamins” and  “The Local Radio Advantage: Your 4-Week Tune-In Tune-Up,” and “Confidential: Negotiation Checklist for Weekend Talk Radio.” Follow HC on Twitter @HollandCooke and connect on LinkedIn.

Industry Views

Pending Business: The 40% Factor

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Steve Lapa
Lapcom Communications Corp
President

imThere is something about 40.

40% of Q1 2023 podcast advertisers did not return for Q1 2024, according to Magellan AI.

40% of small businesses failed within the first three years, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

40% of all workers were prepared to quit their jobs two years ago, according to a McKinsey Study. 43% of email professional recipients open email on a mobile device, according to Statista.

44% of sellers quit the pursuit after the second call according to Scripted. Really? Almost half of the sellers reading this column give up after the second call? That statistic must be wrong.

Consider your typical sales day – prioritized, focused, clear goals established, with all seasonal and timely deadlines plugged in and ready for execution. Successful sellers put as much time and focus into planning and organization as they do into the sales process. So, why quit the process after the second attempt? There are only three reasons any experienced sellers would give up after the second attempt.

1. Poor targeting.

2. Unrealistic expectations.

3. A negative business condition requires a new approach.

Reason #3 is the answer to why I listed the 40% factor. Professional sellers and managers sometimes lose touch with the realities of local business conditions. Attrition has always been the enemy of local sales, yet managers and sellers rarely plan for it. Budgeting and analysis are easy paper exercises. Old fashioned ear-to-the-ground market “research” is equally important. Those who learn to balance the formal and the informal find themselves winning the battle of the 40% factor.

As we approach the second half of the year, with elections, seasonal sports, and major holidays ahead of us, time to sharpen our pencils and tweak the projections for the remainder of the year. And always remember your pencil should have an eraser.

Happy Selling!

Steve Lapa is the president of Lapcom Communications Corp. based in Palm Beach Gardens, FL. Lapcom is a media sales, marketing, and development consultancy. Contact Steve Lapa via email at: Steve@Lapcomventures.com.

Industry Views

Monday Memo: Cliché Alert!

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Holland Cooke
Consultant

imRatings – and advertisers’ results – reward what listeners remember, what sticks-out, not clichés that blend-in. So, avoid blah-blah-blah such as…

“on tap for…”

Instead of “…and more sunshine on tap for Sunday,” say “…and more sunshine Sunday!” 

“The best _____ around” or “the best _____ in town.”

Commercial copy Styrofoam. “The best wings?” Say WHY, in a way that makes the listener salivate.

“conveniently located”

Zzzz… 

“weaponized”

The word itself has been weaponized. It’s talking-about-talking.

“spot-on”

Translation: What you expressed affirms my predisposition. Talk radio is more interesting, and habit-forming, when sparks fly. So, pique curiosity. Have your screener move callers who disagree to the head of the line.

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“Too clever by half.”

Measured how? Not self-explanatory, this is distracting. And it always sounds condescending. 

“all-important”

As in “let’s check that all-important forecast,” often heard when weather is severe or changing quickly. Rookie stuff. If it’s important, get right to it.

“In this day and age…”

‘Makes you sound like an immigrant from the 20th Century, speaking with an accent. 

“THAT’S the $64,000 question.”

From a TV show in the 1950s, when $64K was big money. 

“shuttered.”

If something closed, say “closed.”  Listeners don’t say “shuttered” in conversation…which is where we want to end up.

“unmitigated gall”

“in any way, shape, or form”

And on THAT note…kidding…

“Period, full-stop.”

Holland Cooke (HollandCooke.com) is a consultant working at the intersection of broadcasting and the Internet. He is the author of “The Local Radio Advantage: Your 4-Week Tune-In Tune-Up,” and “Close Like Crazy: Local Direct Leads, Pitches & Specs That Earned the Benjamins” and “Confidential: Negotiation Checklist for Weekend Talk Radio.” Follow HC on Twitter @HollandCooke and connect on LinkedIn.

Industry Views

Doug Stephan is This Week’s Guest on Harrison Podcast

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

Nationally syndicated talk radio host Doug Stephan is this week’s guest on the award-winning PodcastOne series, “The Michael Harrison Interview.” After starting out as a music DJ more than a half century ago, Stephan has chalked up a remarkable career as a pioneering syndicated talk show host heard on hundreds of stations weekday mornings with his general-appeal program titled, “Good Day.” After 36 consecutive years on the air, the durable show, currently co-hosted by Jai Kershner, recently surpassed the late Rush Limbaugh’s mark as the longest running Monday thru Friday syndicated talk property in the business. Stephan is now in the process of reconfiguring “Good Day” to suit the demands of the digital era and radio economics to ensure further longevity by transitioning it into a fresh weekend news/talk entity with modular application to weekday broadcasts. Stephan’s firm, Stephan Multimedia, is also a major radio producer/syndicator of several specialty radio programs hosted by Stephan and others including, “Good Day Health,” the “Talk Radio Countdown Show,” and a program that is achieving notable traction in the world of agriculture called the “American Family Farmer.” The latter taps directly into his qualifications to tackle the challenges facing independent 21st century farmers and champion their causes. In addition to his work in radio, the indefatigable Stephan is the longtime owner/operator of a well-known dairy farm located just outside of Boston in Framingham, Massachusetts. Harrison and Stephan talk about the state of radio, syndication, media entrepreneurism, food, health, and agriculture including his educated take on the current bird flu/cow issue. Listen to the podcast in its entirety here.

Industry Views

Sabo Sez: More from the Book of Secrets

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Walter Sabo
Consultant, Sabo Media Partners
A.K.A. Walter M. Sterling
Radio Host, “Sterling On Sunday”
Talk Media Network

imTo be an expert in marketing requires expertise in how memory works. Early in my consultant practice, I studied and read every book I could find on the processes of memory. The best book is Effective Frequency: The Relationship Between Frequency and Advertising Effectiveness. Put simply, how many times does a consumer have to hear a message before it has impact? The book, a collection of studies, is the foundation for every qualitative study in the field today.

Knowing the foundation studies of frequency’s impact facilitates sales, promo scheduling, topic rotation and external station marketing. No marketing budget? Mistake. The most efficient investment in a radio station’s growth is external advertising. Heightened awareness of a station increases cume, key for direct response advertisers, and makes sales calls shorter because the station is familiar to buyers, improves morale, and minimizes competition.

Key take aways from this book of secrets:

The Law of Six: For a message to have impact, it must be heard by the target six times during the length of the campaign.

The Law of Seven: Why are there seven (7) digits in phone numbers? Over a hundred years ago the phone company had to determine how many digits we could handle. They researched how many items we could remember in any product category. How many brand name soaps, tires, shampoos, deodorants. etc. Try it. Write down all the shampoo brands or tire brands you can think of. I’ve performed this magic act with large audiences around the country.

Almost no one can write down more than seven shampoo, deodorant, cereal, or tire brands. The exception is if the question asks you to write down brands of an industry in which you work. Memory activity applies to the use of presets on car radios. Analog car radios rarely fill all five or six pre-set buttons. In your digital car, even though you’re in radio, I bet the most you’ve programmed is four.

Flight or Dose? A $5,000,000 national campaign was tested for flight effectiveness. What works best? Two weeks on, two weeks off or continuous spots. Same number of spots, same budget but continuous or flighted? Two surprising answers: The flighted campaign resulted in more sales. But the continuous run actually hurt sales and after an initial positive impact, sales declined to pre-campaign levels.

Youth Matters: The younger the customer, the more often they must be exposed to the message. A young person has more distractions than an older person.

People Forget: This is the key takeaway: If a product is not advertised for nine months, customers have no memory of the message. None. They might remember that the product exists, but they have no recall of what the product does for them or why they should buy it… or listen to it. A tragic, industry-wide mistake has been made to cease advertising radio stations. Obviously not advertising is hypocritical for a medium that survives on ad dollars. The no-marketing argument is that with the PPM there is no need to remind listeners of a station’s name because the listener no longer has to write it down in a diary. How much has your city changed in nine months? How many new streams, websites, podcasts have distracted your listener from your station? External marketing of a station protects the investment made in its operation.

Walter Sabo has been a C Suite action partner for companies such as SiriusXM, Hearst, Press Broadcasting, Gannett, RKO General and many other leading media outlets. His company HITVIEWS, in 2007, was the first to identify and monetize video influencers. HITVIEWS clients included Pepsi, FOX TV, Timberland, Microsoft, and CBS Television. He can be reached at walter@sabomedia.com and www.waltersterlingshow.com. “Sterling On Sunday,” from Talk Media Network airs 10:00 pm-1:00 ET, now in its 10th year of success.

Industry Views

Pending Business: Non-Compete

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Steve Lapa
Lapcom Communications Corp
President

imIt’s complicated, this whole Federal Trade Commission ruling potentially banning the non-compete. Considering where you stand on the non-compete concept, it’s really all about evaluating the five “C” profile of your media business.

Personally, I sit at a roundtable where all sides are given equal consideration. More about that roundtable later.

First the five Cs of your media business: Company, Culture, Customers, Competition, Compensation. Let us define each.

1. Company – What is the image and reputation of your Company (management) internally?

Externally? Is your Company viewed as a destination or last resort for employment?

2. Culture – Is the atmosphere on your sales team or in your talent pool upbeat, positive performance driven, supportive, with access to key management? Is there a feedback loop that makes employee voices valued in this new world of Zoom, Teams, etc.? Is achievement recognized in a positive manner? Do sellers and talent have input into goals? Are missed goals treated like broken glass or the start of a learning curve?

3. Customers – Advertisers and audience are important customers. Advertisers, the cash register of any ad-based media model, move in only three directions – increase their spend, decrease their spend, flatline spending. Audience scale is the currency of your performing talent. Audience, like advertisers, can only go in three similar directions – increase, decrease, level off. If you are a subscription-based media entity, pay close attention to overdelivering subscriber expectations and lowering churn.

4. Competition – Keep a close eye on what your competitors are paying, how they are recruiting and what they are changing.

5. Compensation – My favorite. Have the courage to pay for performance at the high end and many of your non-compete clauses may not be needed.

Check the boxes on all five Cs in the model as outlined. Now back to my roundtable.

When you consider your company’s view, the non-compete in any media business that provides training (sales, talent, and other personnel), promotional investment, exposure to confidential research and strategies, is not simple to eliminate.

Consider the following:

1. The talent/show that is backed with a six-figure promotional campaign. Should the talent/show be allowed to seek employment at a competitor who is smart enough to realize, your company invested the money to make the talent/show a success, and all the competitor needs to do is revise compensation and lift a few restrictions? Your company’s investment could never be paid back.

2. Ever sit in on a focus group project? When the participants open the perception spigot, the bucket can fill up with verbal gold. Whomever gains access to that research and the resulting strategic change in direction has their hands on confidential information that can help drive results off the charts. How is the company’s investment in that research protected? What about the employees learning how it all works?

3. Good sales training, seminars, and off-site are not cheap, and considered an investment in all sellers and management. Should you really be permitted to walk across the street with no notice and all that expensive training in your laptop?

I’m writing this column as a roundtable, considering all sides and it is still complicated.

Steve Lapa is the president of Lapcom Communications Corp. based in Palm Beach Gardens, FL. Lapcom is a media sales, marketing, and development consultancy. Contact Steve Lapa via email at: Steve@Lapcomventures.com.

Industry Views

Monday Memo: 50 Years, Same Station!

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Holland Cooke
Consultant

imAPPLAUSE for Daniel Centofanti, a good egg, known to several generations of Southern New Englanders as “Giovanni,” mornings on WPRO-FM, Providence… until today, the 50th anniversary of the station’s format flip from Beautiful Music to CHR.

1974 was also the year I went to work there, doing nights on WPRO-AM. And Gio’ was that kid, loitering at the radio station…UNTIL – as happened to so many of us budding broadcasters – someone called in sick, and PD Gary Berkowitz told him “You’re on!”

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Back to the future: That kid is now 68, which makes me feel older than when I was 68. Take a bow, amigo. Here’s how local TV broke the news:

https://turnto10.com/news/local/local-radio-legend-giovanni-of-92-pro-fm-announces-retirement-after-50-years-on-air-southern-new-england-rhode-island-february-15-2024

Holland Cooke (HollandCooke.com) is a consultant working at the intersection of broadcasting and the Internet. He is the author of “The Local Radio Advantage: Your 4-Week Tune-In Tune-Up,” and “Close Like Crazy: Local Direct Leads, Pitches & Specs That Earned the Benjamins” and “Confidential: Negotiation Checklist for Weekend Talk Radio.” Follow HC on Twitter @HollandCooke and connect on LinkedIn.

Industry Views

Pending Business: Talk Radio Questionnaire

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Steve Lapa
Lapcom Communications Corp
President

imTime to thank the lawyers in the Donald Trump trial for once again proving beyond any doubt the power of talk radio.

1. Sellers – Get ready for Mother’s Day and Christmas rolled into one.

2. Managers – Prepare a fresh new page in your talk radio media kit.

3. On-air talk radio talent – Don’t throw away that lottery ticket, your number could come in.

4. Media consultants – Hit the brakes on making TV as an automatic first choice for your political campaigns, we’ve got a story for you.

5. Owners – Play your cards right and that talk radio format may have jumped in value.

It has been widely reported that jurors selected for the Donald Trump-Stormy Daniels trial were presented a questionnaire with the following question, “Do you listen to talk radio?” “If so, which programs?” Now wait just a minute all you jury profilers out there or fans of the TV show “Bull.” This is big, but I have a few questions of my own:

1. Why would any lawyer be interested in the radio listening habits of a (potential) juror?

2. Why specify “talk radio?”

3. What’s with the need to know about specific programs?

4. What’s the definition of “listen?” Daily? How long?

Maybe it’s time to recognize just what all this means to great talk radio talent and marketers.

I’m sure by now you have figured out where this goes – influence – as in talk radio hosts, the original influencers.

The very nature of a jury selection questionnaire screening for talk radio listening and specific programs is fascinating. Did an attorney conclude that talk radio shows influenced a potential juror’s feelings, opinions, perceptions (the very currency of talk radio) when it comes to Donald Trump or Stormy Daniels or any other key player on the legal stage?

As every seller knows, talk radio talents were the original influencers and continue to drive sales every day. To the local sellers and managers in the New York DMA pitching Sid Rosenberg, Joe Piscopo, Mark Simone and the other great local talents, imagine experienced legal teams evaluating the influence of their daily shows on potential jurors. Same for the nationally syndicated talent heard in the New York DMA. Talk radio lives and is influencing in the Big Apple!

“Do you listen to talk radio?” “If so, which programs?” that line of questioning should now become part of your daily marketing testimonial. After all, if teams of well-respected lawyers feel talk radio listening can influence the decisions of jurors in one of the most historic cases ever to be tried in our country, imagine what talk radio can do for your advertisers!

Steve Lapa is the president of Lapcom Communications Corp. based in Palm Beach Gardens, FL. Lapcom is a media sales, marketing, and development consultancy. Contact Steve Lapa via email at: Steve@Lapcomventures.com.

Industry Views

Monday Memo: It’s Artificial Intelligence

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Holland Cooke
Consultant

imI asked ChatGPT: “Vendors are now offering radio stations a service that delivers advertising commercial copy generated by AI. Because AI draws from what’s already been done, this risks sound-alike scripts. Is there a list of commercial clichés users should instruct AI to exclude?”

Instantly, the robot replied: “While there isn’t a definitive list of commercial clichés, as they can vary depending on industry, audience, and cultural context, here are some common examples to consider instructing AI to avoid:

1. Don’t miss out!

2. Limited time offer!

3. One-of-a-kind deal!

4. Act now!

5. For a limited time only!

6. Unbeatable prices!

7. Revolutionary product!

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8. Best in class!

9. Cutting-edge technology!

10. Guaranteed satisfaction!

11. Change your life today!

12. Once in a lifetime opportunity!

13. Hurry, while supplies last!

14. Get yours today!

15. New and improved!

These are just a few examples, and there are many more clichés that could be included in such a list. It’s also important to consider the specific audience and context when identifying and excluding cliches from AI-generated advertising commercial copy.”

Skynet has become self-aware. 

Holland Cooke (HollandCooke.com) is a consultant working at the intersection of broadcasting and the Internet. He is the author of “Close Like Crazy: Local Direct Leads, Pitches & Specs That Earned the Benjamins,” and  “The Local Radio Advantage: Your 4-Week Tune-In Tune-Up,” and “Confidential: Negotiation Checklist for Weekend Talk Radio.” Follow HC on Twitter @HollandCooke and connect on LinkedIn.

Industry Views

Lee Harris is This Week’s Guest on Harrison Podcast

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

Radio journalist, personality, media manager and tech creator Lee Harris is this week’s guest on the award-winning PodcastOne series, “The Michael Harrison Interview.” It’s been nearly a year since Harris surprised the world of broadcast journalism when he announced that after nearly 30 years, he would be leaving one of the most important positions in all-news radio – morning anchor at the legendary 1010 WINS, New York. He left by his own choice to accept the position of director of integrated operations with NewsNation, the new and rapidly growing cable news network, where he would be responsible for the development and distribution of the multi-platform operation’s audio content. Based at NewsNation’s New York newsroom, this Edward R. Murrow Award-winner would also assist in news writing and the creation of NewsNation specials. He is also playing a large hand in the programming of the company’s major radio property – the historic WGN, Chicago. Harrison and Harris discuss a variety of subjects from 1010 WINS history back to its top 40 roots to NewsNation’s positioning as an unbiased news platform. (Harris will moderate “The Great Debate” between Mike Gallagher and Thom Hartmann scheduled for TALKERS 2024 on June 7.) Harrison and Harris’s fascinating conversation also covers AI and technology’s impact on programming. Listen to the podcast in its entirety here.

Industry Views

Sabo Sez: Tap into The Book of Secrets

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Walter Sabo
Consultant, Sabo Media Partners
A.K.A. Walter M. Sterling
Radio Host, “Sterling On Sunday”
Talk Media Network

imGrowing a brand is a memory game. Which message will a target consumer value, remember it and take it to the cash register?  The answer is not complicated but it is complex.

A great amount of energy and brain power goes into brand names, logo design, show topics but very little study is made of how often a company should deliver information to their target. The answer to the question of “how often” is critical to landing marks in the Nielsen diary, seeking for your station online or in-car. Effective frequency is essential to everyone’s success!

“When you’re sick of the song, that’s when the listener is just hearing it…” isim about all the science any of us have been tutored in on the subject of effective frequency.

Frequency of message has, in fact, been studied for over 100 years and the answers are astonishing!  The most important, useful  frequency of message studies are in the book, Effective Frequency: The Relationship Between Frequency and Advertising Effectiveness.

I bought the book in 1981 to find answers to how much external advertising does a station need to win (remember?)… how often to rotate a song promo or topic? The answers are not found in myth and legends but in hard studies conducted by companies such as Lever Brothers and Procter & Gamble.

The book was assembled by the Association of National Advertisers. It is a collection of landmark major studies on how memory is Impacted by the frequency of message exposure.  Expertise on the workings of memory is obviously the most important knowledge in a Nielsen diary market and vital to growth in metered markets if a station has been starved of a promotion budget. This book was edited by the head of research for Lever Brothers, Michael J. Naples.

The next three Sabo Sez columns will highlight more actionable data from the book. For example, the studies in the book offer hard data about on how many spots your listener can tolerate, how often to state and restate the topic, phone number, your name and more. This book has, by far, offered my work the most powerful guidance of any source.

Here are a few facts you might be able to put to use right now:

1. The first and last spot in a cluster enjoys the greatest recall. Promos work equally well in either position. Spots placed first and last should be charged more.

2. Moving money out of a TV campaign and putting it into a radio campaign will neither diminish nor improve response. BUT holding the money in a TV campaign and adding money for a radio campaign will improve response.

3. Stunning: For many product categories, daypart significantly impacts the likelihood of conversion to sales. Food product commercials, according to an Ogilvy & Mather study, convert to sales significantly better in late night, fringe time than in daytime.  In fact, food product ads in prime time have a negative impact on sales.

4. Properly conducted research for consumer goods products can be successfully applied to media content development.

Walter Sabo has been a C Suite action partner for companies such as SiriusXM, Hearst, Press Broadcasting, Gannett, RKO General and many other leading media outlets. His company HITVIEWS, in 2007, was the first to identify and monetize video influencers. HITVIEWS clients included Pepsi, FOX TV, Timberland, Microsoft, and CBS Television. He can be reached at walter@sabomedia.com and www.waltersterlingshow.com. “Sterling On Sunday,” from Talk Media Network airs 10:00 pm-1:00 ET, now in its 10th year of success.

Industry Views

NAB Show: Directing Real People on Camera

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Holland Cooke
Consultant 

imIf you’re looking to jump-start – or optimize – your video interview technique, this session alone was worth the trip to Las Vegas. Washington-based video content strategist/producer/interviewer Amy DeLouise and cinematographer/gaffer Anne Saul delivered a soup-to-nuts “Boot Camp” session to an overflow crowd.

For the decks, hit AmyDeLouise.com, click Slide Decks then Real People Boot Camp, parts 1 and 2. You can devour an impressive tutorial of production techniques, including specifics about equipment and how-to-use-it.

Even if you’re just doing radio or podcast interviews, Amy offered some useful tips:

“Nervous Speaker Technique”: Before the interview, chat ‘em up, perhaps asking for a personal anecdote, i.e., “Why did you decide to become a _____?” If you are shooting video, do the B-roll and walk-and-talk shots first. Then, when they’ve gotten used to you and the set-up, start the interview. “Worst case: Let them take a break, ‘Go do some emails,’ then resume in 20 minutes.”

“The Contradict Me Technique”: Because “some speakers are very reserved, they won’t show emotion unless they feel they need to correct your misunderstanding.” So, bait them: “Isn’t A.I. just a gimmick?”

“The Shorter Answer Technique”: Some speakers have a LOT to say,’ so Amy says let them get it out of their system, THEN ask “How would I explain this to my children?”

“Two Do-Over Techniques”: If you want to re-ask a question, fib: “The part about X was really great. But we had a little bit of noise, do you mind if I ask you that one more time?” Or “lean in as if you didn’t quite hear the answer, and they will repeat it;” a ploy which “only works for the last part of what they said.”

“The Finish My Sentence Technique”: Amy says “When all else fails, ask ‘Finish this sentence: The biggest value we bring at ABC Company is…’” 

Holland Cooke (HollandCooke.com) is a consultant working at the intersection of broadcasting and the Internet. He is the author of “Close Like Crazy: Local Direct Leads, Pitches & Specs That Earned the Benjamins,” and  “The Local Radio Advantage: Your 4-Week Tune-In Tune-Up,” and “Confidential: Negotiation Checklist for Weekend Talk Radio.” Follow HC on Twitter @HollandCooke and connect on LinkedIn.

Industry Views

Pending Business: Dizzying Media Headlines

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Steve Lapa
Lapcom Communications Corp
President

imThe media headlines are dizzying these days, yet they all share one common thread. See if you can solve this puzzle.

1. The “Golden Batchelor” is getting divorced, three months after tying the knot.

2. Netflix is changing their film strategy, that according to The New York Times, may mean fewer big advances to stars.

3. NCAA Women’s basketball final delivered more TV viewers than UConn’s back-to-back championship finale vs. Purdue.

4. Retail media networks are real and could replace terrestrial radio as the true purchase influencer.

These headlines reflect what great radio programmers learned a long time ago, and what smart sellers practice every day. The concept is elegantly simple: give the people what they want, and the rest will take care of itself.

The “Golden Batchelor” was targeted at the 55+ audience. The biggest demographic watching traditional TV. The finale drew over 6 million viewers and gave millions of seniors hope for romance at any age. Give the people what they want, and the audience and advertisers followed. The breakup, well maybe that leans more Dr. Phil, and he is starting his own network!

Netflix has a new film boss, Dan Lin, and according to a recent article in The New York Times, he wants the Netflix film lineup to have a wider appeal to more of us 260 million Netflix subscribers. Sound familiar? Give a bigger share of the audience more of what they want.

Pioneering radio programmers learned that strategy before Netflix was a business model.

Start with Top 40 music radio, go to the all-news model and park your pick on your favorite pioneering talk radio talent. Listeners got what they wanted, as audience and advertisers followed.

Nearly 19 million watched as Caitlin Clark tried one last time to drive her team to victory. Her final push wasn’t enough to defeat a determined South Carolina team. It didn’t matter to the millions who tuned in and the advertisers who were smart enough to jump on board. Give the fans a superstar from Iowa named Caitlin and an audience of millions will follow.

Don’t look now, but that old-school pitch of radio being the final purchase influencer as the radio plays in the car on the way to the store, is fading fast. I can’t tell you how many times I made that classic pitch, until I heard “Attention ______ shoppers” as I pushed my cart down the aisle.

Retail media networks are now online as well as “on-the-air” in store, and we are spending more and more time shopping online.

What does it all mean to you, the seller? Simple! Just find what your advertisers want and sell it!

Steve Lapa is the president of Lapcom Communications Corp. based in Palm Beach Gardens, FL. Lapcom is a media sales, marketing, and development consultancy. Contact Steve Lapa via email at: Steve@Lapcomventures.com.

Industry Views

Monday Memo: At This Week’s NAB Show?

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Holland Cooke
Consultant

imThank me later for these Blackjack tips, based on many convention years’ experience, sometimes painful:

— Loiter, looking for a new shoe, then sit-out the first hand. If no Aces appear, grab a seat.

— If no Aces appear in the second hand, up your bet.

— Decline Insurance, statistically a sucker bet.

im

— No matter WHAT the dealer is showing, ALWAYS-ALWAYS split Aces and 8s.

— Stand, Hit, Split, or Double-Down on-the-assumption-that the dealer’s hole card is a 10.

— If you’re dealt a hard 17 or higher – or A,8 or A,9 – or 10-10 – always Stand.

— Those “free” drinks they bring get REAL expensive if you’re losing while waiting for your refill.

— The shoe can be kind… or cruel. Keep playing as long as you’re winning… but DO NOT think of winnings as “playing with their money.” It’s yours. If you lose two consecutive hands, bug-out.

Safest bet in ‘Vegas? DON’T. And DO-tell if you’d like to grab a cuppa cawfee if you’ll be there for NAB.

Holland Cooke (HollandCooke.com) is a consultant working at the intersection of broadcasting and the Internet. He is the author of “The Local Radio Advantage: Your 4-Week Tune-In Tune-Up,” and “Close Like Crazy: Local Direct Leads, Pitches & Specs That Earned the Benjamins” and “Confidential: Negotiation Checklist for Weekend Talk Radio.” Follow HC on Twitter @HollandCooke and connect on LinkedIn

Industry Views

Monday Memo: The Irresistible Offer

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Holland Cooke
Consultant

imHaving written thousands of commercials and promos, I’ve become a copy connoisseur. And, admittedly, a tough grader when it comes to delivery. Sell me and you’re good.

So, all four flight attendants caught my ear as I flew to/from a radio conference in Hawaii. The pitch came toward the end of 10+ hours each way nonstop Boston/Honolulu; and aboard the quick hops to/from Kauai.

They sounded neither sing-songy, as though they were reading; nor falsely enthusiastic. That alone impressed me. Thirty years ago, I scripted such announcements – and coached flight attendants – when I programmed 3 live USA Today Sky Radio channels aboard Delta, United, and Northwest Airlines. Back to the future…

They were hawking the Hawaiian Airlines Mastercard, which, already having a wallet full of plastic, I didn’t need. Each dollar spent earns a Hawaiian Mile (double miles for restaurant purchases), which would be tempting if I wanted to visit again. But I wasn’t sold… yet. I had been to Hawaii once before, on vacation, and only went this second time for business. Travelogue here recently explains that we East Coasters have quicker paths to paradise.

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Typically, these affinity cards come with a signing bonus. Another one I have awarded 20,000 points if I used it to make at least $1,000 in purchases within the first 90 days. So, I smiled when these flight attendants emphasized that – using the promo code on applications they were handing out – I could quickly earn 80,000 miles, a bonus “you won’t see if you sign-up online.”

And as an announcement aficionado, I noted how all four recited this line verbatim: Unlike other cards that ask $1,000 or more purchases to qualify, “Just buy a cup of coffee or a pack of gum, and you’ve got 80,000 Hawaiian Miles.”

And they explained that 80K was enough for a free round trip from Boston or New York to Honolulu, or TWO round trips from a West Coast airport… DARN tempting… if I ever want to go back to Hawaii. Still not sold.

The clincher? I can also use those miles on JetBlue, which services my home airport, Providence, and flies to the Bahamas. SOLD. And my first purchase was indeed for a cup of coffee, and I did get the 80,000 miles. So, this is my restaurant card now.

Every time I’ve told this story in a client station sales meeting, at least one rep says, “Spell that all out again?” and starts writing. Successful sellers anticipate and address objections as well as that inflight announcement. Ditto commercial copy you craft for local retailers. Welcome aboard.

Holland Cooke (HollandCooke.com) is a consultant working at the intersection of broadcasting and the Internet. He is the author of “The Local Radio Advantage: Your 4-Week Tune-In Tune-Up,” and “Close Like Crazy: Local Direct Leads, Pitches & Specs That Earned the Benjamins” and “Confidential: Negotiation Checklist for Weekend Talk Radio.” Follow HC on Twitter @HollandCooke and connect on LinkedIn

Industry Views

Pending Business: Personal

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Steve Lapa
Lapcom Communications Corp
President

imThe work-life balance concept is up for a new spin. Let us start in California.

A recent article in the LA Times discussed the California “right-to-disconnect” bill, “guaranteeing workers the right to ignore after-hours call, emails and texts from employers.” It is not a law yet, but if Assemblyman Matt Haney has his way, the workday could be redefined, again.

We have moved from being overworked and underpaid to the covid-driven culture of work from home and working remotely. Dress codes took on a new meaning as we Zoomed and Teamed our way through meetings, calls, and brainstorming sessions.

As the total remote work concept is being revisited by many media companies we have moved towards a hybrid of the number of in-office days vs. total remote days. Many ad agencies and rep firms are getting increasingly comfortable leaning into mainly remote work as commercial office space vacancies hit all-time highs in many cities.

With the warp speed advances of communication in the digital world, we now have the 24/7/365 always-on mindset. Some companies hire sales and customer service reps in all time zones to align unique sales and marketing with a heightened level of customer expectations.

How disappointed do you get when you hear, “our normal business hours are_____, please call back.” Are you kidding me with “normal?” One contract required my own company, considered a small business, to maintain production teams on both the East and West Coasts to adhere to final edits and posting deadlines.

The new world truly is business unusual. The “right-to-disconnect” does have a key place in the blurred workplace. The question is how to manage such a unique concept as not answering the phone when caller ID says, “Boss.”

Let us complicate the picture with my favorite growing trend, “The 4-day Work Week.” If you are in sales or marketing, you could be drooling at the opportunity this will create. No, not more time AT the beach or golf course for you the seller. I am thinking about the new opportunities to talk to the marketing director of the resort, golf course, family get-away or any other leisure activity that could make that long weekend a permanent lifestyle fixture. Some phenomenally successful businesspeople have already placed their bets. As we redefine the work-life balance, new categories will open right in front of you. Stay focused. Pickleball, anyone?

Steve Lapa is the president of Lapcom Communications Corp. based in Palm Beach Gardens, FL. Lapcom is a media sales, marketing, and development consultancy. Contact Steve Lapa via email at: Steve@Lapcomventures.com.

Industry Views

Sabo Sez: Make More Money Selling Emotion

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

By Walter Sabo
Consultant, Sabo Media Implementers
A.K.A. Walter Sterling
Radio Host, “Sterling On Sunday”
Talk Media Network

imIt seems every hour Nielsen and Pierre Bouvard of Cumulus fame (formerly of Westwood One) put out a release stating that radio is just fine, thank you. Radio is more persuasive than TV, direct mail, streaming and print. Radio is a proven success for over 100 years. Most of the buildings housing Procter & Gamble were built on radio – not TV – advertising success. Happily, P&G realized radio’s clout and is now a dominant radio advertiser – again!

Audience data, facts, do little, if any, good. Based on the facts, radio should be the number one local advertising medium. It’s not, direct mail wins. Value Pack.

Every year radio’s revenue goes down. Many stations deliver consistent ratings and consistent product – yet they are going down in billing. Selling hard numbers, provable numbers, is not growing the industry.

Why do you buy stuff? Quantitative numbers are not driving revenue. What’s an option? Why do you buy… anything? If you’re buying an essential item like milk, the purchase is price driven. But radio is not an essential ad buy, yet the sales challenge is met by lowering spot rates. That hasn’t solved anything. Lower spot rates make overall revenue worse by lowering perceived value.

Your non-essential purchases are determined by price and emotion. Do you need that? No, but you want it. What does radio provide to a listener? EMOTION. Music and talk radio elicit emotional responses. Profound, deep, emotional responses. Why do clients cancel talk radio? Because they are offended, embarrassed or angry. Why do clients cancel a music station? Because they hate, can’t stand or are offended by the songs. Media buyer emotions drive capricious, rapid ad campaign cancellations. (Why do you get fired even though your numbers are just fine? Because you offended somebody.)

If numbers don’t maintain a buy, what would compel a buy?

Tangibles plus on-air emotion. Tell you a secret. Most TV media buys are for shows, not audience. Right. Math-driven media buying services buy TV shows they like.

Suggest we look to move off the spreadsheet, the programmatic, and enter the warmth of emotional selling, selling to a buyer’s personal likes. (Jingle Ball – genius!) Personal likes. The numbers aren’t serving the need for revenue growth. Soft drivers: Concert tickets, prize winners, food, free tracks, buyer names on air, parties, gift for kids. Old school? No. Proven school. New school isn’t working. Turn radio’s air into tangible, shiny objects. Radio elicits emotional responses, let’s sell to them. That’s powerful! More powerful than time spent listening.

Walter Sabo has been a C Suite action partner for companies such as SiriusXM, Hearst, Press Broadcasting, Gannett, RKO General and many other leading media outlets. His company HITVIEWS, in 2007, was the first to identify and monetize video influencers. HITVIEWS clients included Pepsi, FOX TV, Timberland, Microsoft, and CBS Television. He can be reached at walter@sabomedia.com and www.waltersterlingshow.com. “Sterling On Sunday,” from Talk Media Network airs 10:00 pm-1:00 ET, now in its 10th year of success.

Industry Views

Harrison Podcast Pays Tribute to Joe Lieberman

By TALKERS | by TALKERS

TALKERS founder Michael Harrison pays tribute to the late U.S. Senator Joe Lieberman on thisim week’s installment of the award-winning PodcastOne series, “The Michael Harrison Interview.” The program includes an archived interview conducted with Lieberman in 2018 for the podcast which offers valuable insight into his perspective on the Electoral College and the presidency of Donald Trump among other historic issues. Harrison describes the late senator and former VP candidate as, “one of the last true American statesmen of the modern era.” To listen to the podcast in its entirety, please click here.